Workplace Systems and Continual Improvement: IDEA 9 Domains Framework for Disability Inclusion

Bridgette (00:05)
Welcome to the IDEA 4DY podcast series. I'm your host, Bridgette Sterling.

Tammy (00:14)
Accessibility means not having to ask. And so as organizations, when we do have employees who request an accommodation or support, those are opportunities for us to turn our mind to inclusive design so that in the future, others in their situation don't need to go through a rigorous process of requesting accommodations and support.

Bridgette (00:36)
You just heard from Tammy Morris, offering one of the perspectives you'll hear in today's conversation.

Across construction and manufacturing, inclusion is often positioned as a set of programs, policies, or commitments. Yet so many organizations struggle to translate inclusion consistently through their day to day management and workplace systems. As a result, inclusion efforts can become fragmented, strong and intentioned.

But inconsistent in implementation across teams, departments, work sites, and operational contexts. So the question becomes how do organizations move from inclusion as an initiative to inclusion as a system? And more specifically, how can workplace systems be designed to support retention,

operational performance and equity in a way that's sustainable over time.

This podcast is a part of the 4DY for Diverse Youth Initiative, developed by IDEA, Inclusive Design for Employment Access, a knowledge the practice effort focused on strengthening employer capacity for diverse recruitment by supporting the inclusion of youth with disabilities, specifically neurodivergent youth, youth with intellectual disabilities.

And youth navigating mental health challenges in the construction and manufacturing sectors. In episode one, we explored how workplace challenges are often connected to system design rather than individual capability. In this episode, we take the next step by examining how organizations can operationalize inclusion through their management and workplace systems using the nine domains framework

developed by IDEA.

Bridgette (02:32)
Before we dive in, I would love to start by having each of you briefly introduce yourselves and share what brings you to this work. Andrew, let's start with you,

Andrew (02:42)
Hi, my name is Andrew Dixon. I'm a PhD candidate at Memorial University. the work that I focus on is neurodiversity and employment. recently joined the 4DY initiative as a senior research officer. I do a lot of the coordination of research activities for the team led by Dr. Emile Tompa.

It's a great team that we have. And I really have a passion for this work.

Bridgette (03:06)
Amazing. Thank you so much, Andrew. It's so great to have your perspectives Tammy, I would love to hear a little bit more about you next.

Tammy (03:14)
I'm honored to be here Tammy Morris, I lead accessibility and neuroinclusion for EY Canada. EY is a professional services and consulting firm cross-sectors. I came to the firm to architect what was our neurodiversity centers of excellence

an institute to study best practices and neuroinclusion in the workforce. And that began with deconstructing our methodologies and developing our own EY methodology that we now share with our clients and our communities. I internally, co-lead our abilities network and our neuroinclusion programming

Bridgette (03:52)
Thank you so much. It'll be amazing to hear your insights, especially from that systems design perspective. And last but not least, Dilshan please tell the group and our listeners today a little bit more about yourself

Dilshan (04:06)
Thank you, Bridgette. It's very nice to be here. My name is Dilshan Fernando. I like to think of myself as an accessibility disability storyteller. I work at the University of Guelph on accessibility and employment equity, but also I am a research associate at IDEA working with Emile, Andrew, and so many great researchers. I bring to IDEA

significant international policy experience on disability. In my previous roles, I've worked in Myanmar, trying to do policy change there in neuroinclusion. I've done disability research in South Asia, in India, in Sri Lanka, that's where I'm from.

So I'm very excited to be here. Thank you.

Bridgette (04:48)
Incredible. Thank you so much for leading us through that,

So, as we know here in this group, many organizations are investing in inclusion efforts. But there are many challenges still around retention, participation, and workforce sustainability. So I would love to hear from you all today. Why do you think that is? Andrew, let's start with you for this one.

Andrew (05:13)
Certainly. the challenges of today well, they're unprecedented, in the employment space

Today's youth, are looking at practical application, transparency, clarity to the work that they're they're getting involved in. but when you enter into the employment system through any recruiting organization, we see century-old systems like the resume, interview, reference check.

Triad. and

that becomes less about can you do the job and more can you do the interview? And it becomes a type of game.

As a researcher, you see how this triad is a very downstream kind of approach to hiring, a one size fits all approach.

When you look at it from the outside, we start to ask questions of why that is and Are we testing people on their interview skills or the practical aspects of their job, what they're actually going to do on the ground, regardless of the organization they're in. this been a subject of debate in academic circles for for some time.

and it's starting to enter into organizations but it isn't universal by any means yet.

Bridgette (06:20)
That's a really helpful insight. And I think that many of the folks listening today will see themselves within those stress points or within that triad some of the processes and systems that we expect all people to be able to navigate to land a job in these fields can be really difficult.

And rely on a lot of assumptions that all of our brains are all the same. And when accommodations or adjustments are requested, sometimes they can be met with suspicion when we're using this work around framework as opposed to being inclusive by design. So really great framing of how that one size fits all approach, often.

doesn't fit anybody and it can exclude some really great talent. Tammy, I'm curious to hear if you have any perspectives from the retention and participation side. Why aren't folks, advancing within these organizations or staying in these organizations today?

Tammy (07:20)
Yeah, great question, Bridgette. during the first episode there was that loyalty discussion, which has been controversial, right?

are people loyal because they found an employer that really supports where they can thrive, or because of limited opportunities, We're in a rapidly advancing space in the workforce where we need specialized skills and we have a diverse workforce that brings those specialized skills and EY has actually

put out some research 36% of neurodivergent professionals identify as bringing those specialized skills and in those top ten areas where the World Economic Forum has aligned with the future demands for cybersecurity, big data, digital literacy, et cetera, creativity, adaptability.

so I think the talent case has been made. the economic case is very clear. we all benefit from people working and rather than not working. and for EY, we've been an early adopter in this space for over a decade now. We've seen

the productivity, the financial performance of our lines of business, the retention data when people are truly supported. And so it can be done. I think everybody is in their own journey, whether they're earlier adopters, as we have been or more recent. But I think looking at those who have gone down the path, we now have lessons learned. We have

better best practices than we did in the beginning a couple of decades ago. And so I think taking the time to learn from those lessons and that knowledge transfer I think is most beneficial to support and retain

Bridgette (08:58)
Absolutely. it's such a great reminder that,

you're not all alone, you're not on your own. There are many folks before you that have been in this space for some time. And there is so much great research, lessons learned, practical strategies. you don't have to figure it all out for the first time.

Tammy (09:16)
Yeah, I think the data, the research is there on those inclusive companies are financially viable and successful companies. So there's much data there to support. We're all on a journey. We're all a work in progress and organizations are buildings filled with people. And so hopefully given some of the interest, I think twenty-five percent right of organizations intend to invest in.

neurodiversity hiring programs, which is a drastically higher number than even a few years ago. And so I think the intent is there.

Bridgette (09:50)
That's really phenomenal. And it's also great to hear more about that economic business case for, why this is something that your business should be thinking about if you haven't been yet. I would love to shift gears a little bit over to our systems lens. Dilshan I would love to hear from you as we're talking about these challenges and great opportunities for businesses and workplaces today.

Why do you think it's important to think about these opportunities of neuroinclusion and inclusion at large from a systems lens?

Dilshan (10:23)
Thank you for that question, Bridgette. Let me build from what Tammy just mentioned, the talent case, right? So I think what's sometimes lacking in organizations is the internal capacity. Most organizations get stuck.

where to start their well-meaning commitments to accessibility and disability inclusion right it seems to them sometimes that there are so many things to be done and so they get overwhelmed in parallel to that organizations tend to do two broad EDI initiatives a good example would be

A generic AODA training that is required by law, for example, versus targeted accessible interview training, accessible leadership training. So, Bridgette, this all brings back to thinking over time. Thinking about systems as they evolve over time, creating incremental change rather than drastic quick fixes.

And the research team behind IDEA really conducted a thorough, extensive environmental scan and came up with domains which really are different activities of an organization. It's just that we look at an organization as a complex web of interactions between people, right? It's not just a simple thing. And so the nine domains.

Help us locate all those activities and think about integrating inclusion and accessibility into each of those areas. And so in doing so, things improve over time. And that I think is the real key feature. So, Bridgette if you were to ask me, what's that one thing that the systems approach bring? It's this idea of long term incremental change.

I'll stop with that.

Bridgette (12:00)
Incredible. Thank you so much for leading us through that, Dilshan. it can take a lot of time and resources to put together these initiatives. And a lot of folks can also primarily look at or prioritize hiring. You know, how do we look at our hiring and our interview processes to make sure that we can bring in people?

that are neurodivergent or that have intellectual disabilities or disabilities at large.

But if we're not thinking about inclusion as a system, our workplace as a system, where hiring is one component of that, then there's a lot that we're missing. So really looking at things from that perspective of all of the different

Components of an organization and what it takes to really be inclusive by design And that brings me to my next question for Andrew. So Dilshan started to introduce us to the nine domains framework and why taking that systems lens is good for business.

Andrew, could you lead us through a little bit more, what the nine domains are, expanding on Dilshan's overview

Andrew (13:07)
I can take you through what they are. At the top of our list, we have leadership. Second, we have employment and human resources. Third is the built environment. Fourth is information and communication technology or ICT. Fifth is communications, other than ICT. Sixth is operations. Seventh is procurement. Eighth is management and workplace information. And finally, ninth, the social responsibility system. Inclusion doesn't necessarily start in the same place for every organization.

Got different sizes, different leadership. We've got different markets that they're all involved in, or different people that they serve. So the nine-domain framework allows flexibility for inclusion to bloom in different areas. And then once it begins, there's like Dilshan talked about, this incremental change that works its way through all the activity areas within an organization. And then it becomes woven into the fabric of that organization. Inclusion.

Isn't a feature that's on a website. It isn't a box that can be bought. It's a mindset where you're looking through these areas of organizational activity, whether they be in operations or human resources. You look at a thing differently because you approach it differently. Rather than trying to fix it afterwards, the nine domain framework represents being inclusive by design on a broader scale rather than hitting a bump in the road and looking for something to fix the problem. Because we're putting less

pressure on individuals by setting the conditions of success for an organization so that others, not just folks with disabilities or neurodivergent folks, everybody has a better work experience. And I think Tammy mentioned, you know, talks about business cases and other elements that are sort of woven into that by taking this approach. It's not always about disability, it's about better work and better work conditions.

Better organizations are stronger because they are under less degrees of stress. And then we start looking at what advantages does that give an organization when all of these areas of organizational activity are now more unified and integrated rather than separate silos struggling to survive.

Dilshan (15:11)
thanks, Andrew, for aligning those nine domains. There are some features that are really indispensable for management that is related to the nine domains. I mentioned a couple of them, but there are others. For example, long-termism, taking a long-term view over quick fixing, taking the complexity of an organization seriously, recognizing that an organization

Is not a simple being. And also precision, the ability to implement accessibility with precision across all the nine areas that Andrew just outlined, teamwork, incremental change. And finally, I think it's very important to have participatory feedback, the opportunity for diverse actors, including persons with disabilities, to provide.

real-time feedback about systems change. And so things change over time. those are some of the important features of the systems approach that we take to accessibility.

If I may add, Bridgette, what Andrew just highlighted really helps organizations to go beyond compliance, to go beyond the minimum that's required by law. So I think it's an excellent way of looking at accessibility. And I really like the way Andrew explained. So it helps every organization of all sizes to change at the systems level.

Bridgette (16:31)
Absolutely. Thank you both for those perspectives there. And I think you definitely highlighted one of the common sort of pitfalls that many businesses can fall into, where disability, accessibility, inclusion efforts are seen as initiatives. And those initiatives are owned by HR or are owned by the recruitment team.

but they're not embedded as a mindset across the whole organization. And unfortunately, what can happen when that siloing or fragmenting is happening, is that diverse folks, neurodivergent folks come into the workplace and they don't stay in the workplace or they don't succeed in the workplace

So Tammy, I would love to hear a little bit more from you on why it's more sustainable to think with this systems approach

Tammy (17:26)
I think you've all hit on it. And Bridgette, the commonplace question within organizations is where does this fall? Whose responsibility is this from a practical standpoint? and it's so hard to convince that it's everybody, right? this is core to operations. and I often describe culture change as

individual behavior plus systems change. yes, we need people to behave differently, leaders to model inclusion, managers to adapt routines, teams to communicate more accessibly. and we can have some impact. You know, lots of organizations will bring in the guest speaker on that one event during the year, which may impact a few people's behaviors.

But if the systems around them don't change, then behaviors are hard to sustain, despite any best intentions. that's one reason large scale change is difficult. Culture change, you know, around 70% of transformations within business fail. they take on average a few years and much longer than people expect. And so sustaining an ownership, right, of those are important. And

Dilshan mentioned embedding into the operating system of the organization, not just communicated as a value among a list of cultural values. and that includes measuring and monitoring the effectiveness across organizational performance, individual performance, change management.

Andrew (18:52)
I think there's one thing that we can also add to this part of the discussion is that by being more inclusive, by broadening the approach, more universal design, there's a real advantage because you're expanding the talent pool you can access, whether it's in your own organization

Or just when you're looking at adding people to your organization. This broader approach, or being inclusive by design, it just opens up the talent pool in such ways. Like when we look at neurodivergent folks and their pursuit of work, depending on where you are, I mean, employment rates, not unemployment rates now.

Employment rates are sometimes as low as 11%. So that is a huge number of people who can't get connected with work right now. we talked about the traditional systems and what kind of frictions that creates, not just for organizations but for the individuals.

Tammy (19:48)
Andrew, if I could add, I think what we haven't touched on is the sustainability of our businesses by this workforce. So we're looking at aging populations. We have evolving immigration policies. And so we have sort of resiliency of a workforce that's inclusive, but that will sustain us in the long term as well. And

am happy to say at EY, our retention, even in technology consulting spaces where there's typically higher rates of attrition, we see, above ninety-two percent retention after five years in a role, which is again, when you provide the supports to retain individuals and allow them to do their best work.

Bridgette (20:29)
Thank you so much both. And Tammy, I'm so glad that you brought that up because this is something that folks in the manufacturing and construction sectors really know well. Retention, aging workforce, how do we bring in talent that has the specialized skill that we're looking for and retain them as we're navigating these transitional shifts within our generational workforces?

when we're looking at the systems that are behind promotions and advancements behind communications, there's so many different facets and elements that go into someone being able to succeed and thrive once they're in the job itself. Part of those are from, management and leadership

Other parts of those are cultural, feeling that folks can bring their full selves and not need to mask or perform in a certain type of way so that they can be accepted and, feel comfortable at work. but really having that full lens of all of those different components is just as important because back to your point of sustainability, if you're going to make that investment.

You do want to see it pay off. And to have it pay off, have to look at that broader lens.

I would love to bring the conversation now that we've sort of talked about why is a systems lens important, how do we move from intention to execution?

What does that actually look like when we operationalize it in practice? So Tammy, I would love to bring the conversation back over to you.

how does that actually look now that we've kind of talked about it theoretically?

Tammy (22:09)
No, I think as the conversation evolves, EY is a business. this wasn't an act of charity, right? In our efforts around inclusion and changing, deconstructing and and rebuilding some of our internal systems and methods of operation.

as we looked forward, it was really a business imperative looking at future war for talent. And so as many listeners may have you know, invested or investigated in women in trades, or as we have women in technology, or newcomers to Canada, and of course the untapped talent potential here, we've just found to be so rich.

in in what it's contributed to our workforce. this needs to be part of centralized operations and a centralized budget. We know what it looks like when accommodating folks are left to a departmental budget or a small team. So making sure this is owned

fully. I I think in practice when we look at the nine domains, and our consulting practice looks at the full employee lifecycle and that begins at your welcome sign, right? That begins at your messaging. it begins at the accessibility of your websites and the images that you put out. we have to remember that

Candidates are evaluating us as well. It's a two-way street. And so, are we using plain language? Are we trying to be inclusive?

So I think we mentioned in that systems approach, Procurement is one of those systems that can be challenging. so individual behavior change and reaching out to diverse vendors can only get us so far if they can't get into our systems to sign up to propose bids to get paid.

that's why we need to marry all of those systems together. when we follow a checklist or when we're only striving to meet the bare minimum for compliance, that's where we can end up with those checklist type activities where people can get in a front door but can't move within a building or reach to grab a coffee mug once they're there. And so I think really looking holistically

spending the time to look at the systems and really map out that full employee life cycle of experience from the employee perspective but all of our business operations that we can identify how to apply those best practices but also

what is the unintentional messaging that we're sending? And I think we don't reference enough. These are things that we sometimes will turf to a third party. So what message are we sending, right? To say that we need, special people to help us, you know, sort of with special individuals, employees. So there's great research around natural supports that's been out for decades. And

We need to include in the conversation, in the listening, in the training, the people that work beside us eight to ten hours a day doing similar work using similar systems and really leverage those natural supports in the workforce. They're free, they're there, right? And most familiar with the type of work that people will be doing.

Bridgette (25:13)
We do really need all folks within the system to understand and live inclusion and understand why it's important and why it's a part of the business and organization If microaggressions are happening every day on the floor, that's a part of the puzzle as well. So it really is the imperative for everyone.

So really appreciate all of those tactical strategies to really bring to life what this looks like in practice and why it's so important for organizations to consider. Shifting back a little bit to the nine domains framework and systems. So Tammy talked a little bit about procurement and how that's so important and can sometimes be.

missed Andrew and Dilshan, are there any other examples of domains within the framework that you find businesses often underestimate?

Andrew (26:06)
the built environment is an interesting place to start because I think in many ways it gets underestimated because there's an assumption that it's taken care of by building codes. it's kind of handled by someone else. But when you think about a workplace from door to desk or wherever you might be in an organization,

When you simply walk from that door to wherever your workplace is, what is that built environment like? is it an elevator, is it a stairs? These are the easy things to think about, whether they're available, but we don't necessarily think about sensory aspects. getting a population access to workplace could be as simple as making those.

workplace conditions, whether it's lighting or noise or other aspects, just better so that the the individual isn't under a constant level of stress just by navigating from the door of the organization to the workshop or the floor where they're going to get so again reduced amounts of stress on employees and understanding

that building codes are there and they're valid and we need them, but is that even the minimum when it comes to being inclusive?

Dilshan (27:13)
Great points, Andrew. I just wanted to also mention, we all know about curb cuts, right? The sidewalk curb cuts. think about it. Curb cuts are really meant for people who use wheelchairs. But when I ride my bike to the campus, I use the curb cut to get onto the sidewalk, right? people with strollers and other heavy stuff, they all use the curb cut.

So the curb cut effect is really about investing in one community and how that investment benefits everybody. Think about the automatic door openers where we all used to enter buildings. They're meant for persons with disabilities, however, investment in one community, inclusion really helps everyone.

And so I agree with you, and it's been mentioned before in this podcast about procurement being overlooked. And now Andrew mentioned built environments sometimes being overlooked. And think about even performance management. That section of human resource management that's quite overlooked. and even IT, where it's often thought as a purely technical function, but the tools an organization deploys.

Determine whether an employee with a disability can do their job. and really, Bridgette, our systems approach, the nine domains, really help us to think about the overlooked domains and sit with your own team and think about those areas and really improve them over time.

Andrew (28:35)
The nine domain framework also gives us the opportunity to re-examine what we think of maybe what have I overlooked? One of the things that in this work that we talk about is the unwritten curriculum of work.

So what are these features of work that were not written down? that are not necessarily directly addressed. And you know, is that communication? Is that ICT? Where does that fit into? But it starts to pervade the nine domains in different ways. We've talked about it in procurement, right? Like we do procurement in a certain way, and there are challenges to bring it in. But

The unwritten curriculum is all the spaces in between these areas of organizational activity because they're not stated, or understated or understood. You will hear terms like common sense to mass the entire thing. But using the domains allows you to tease apart these things and

Suddenly the unwritten curriculum becomes more explicit, not necessarily written, but there's direction on these things. Again, reducing the stress on an organization because you're reducing the tension points between supervisors and employees, leadership and all the different aspects that are out there. So I think it's important when we look at what we consider to be a systems.

framework is that it allows you to challenge your presuppositions So you can then move forward. Maybe using the continual improvement framework that's embedded in all of this.

Bridgette (30:01)
it's so valuable to think about work in this way.

we've been highlighting this holistic perspective so that culture and a culture of inclusion and so forth is embedded, it's explicit instead of an afterthought, an add-on,

I really loved what Tammy said as well yes, there's an intentional message that you can make, but there's also a message that may be being said by not saying anything at all as well. So, paying attention to that. But really thinking about systems also as this long-term commitment as opposed to the short-term initiative and why that's valuable as a business.

So Tammy, I would love to pass it back over to you to speak to this a little bit more and

what that ongoing improvement, that ongoing assessment actually looks like, and why it matters.

Tammy (30:55)
Yeah, I think everybody wants to be valued for their work, right? and particularly coming in new to an organization. being able to focus on your work.

and Andrew was speaking about that, hidden curriculum in the workplace. And I think the one of the biggest gaps in workplaces is the performance expectations, right? So, say what you mean, mean what you say, be very clear. And so I think oftentimes people think,

we want people to be kind, but it goes beyond, right? To be clear is to be kind. know, with regard to deadlines, with regard to details and performance. so I think we're looking at, setting people up for success in the workplace, allowing them to focus on what drew them here and the work that they want to do and so that they can thrive.

there's so many strategies that we use around gathering feedback. there's a lot of research around that sort of manager lottery. and it can be an unfortunate space if one person is sort of controlling your career. So making sure that we're gathering feedback from multiple perspectives, from peers, self-evaluation. Self-evaluation is really valuable in.

the neurodiversity space for those who perhaps are lacking confidence aren't getting clear and direct enough feedback about those performance expectations. so there are many things that we're looking at. But also the data people are performing as well as and better than their peers from productivity and performance measures. Career trajectories are happening at the same pace.

when people are set up for success and moving into leadership roles. I've mentioned, the financial models around that as well. So I think the sort of grand experiment has been proven out. I think we're still gaining awareness and and credibility for people to understand that. but I think

relating back to the systems approach, these aren't sort of made-up systems, right? these are already systems that exist within our workforces and it's how we are responding

Bridgette (33:00)
Fantastic. Thank you so much for leading us through that and why that lens and mindset is so important for businesses. And I really appreciate throughout all of the statistics and data you've been able to share with us as well to ground us in all the progress and benefits and research that's been done

There's often a perception that inclusion and operational performance are separate or even in tension I would love to hear how a systems approach can really help align inclusion and performance.

And Tammy spoke a little bit to the performance and the productivity and the other side of that. so Andrew, I'll pass it back over to you

Andrew (33:43)
observing humans as an anthropologist or an academic reveals something that everybody kind of knows. It's like the worst kept secret, is that humans are messy. Inclusion work is messy, right? Getting it right the first time is lucky. That's really it.

You certain things align. And we shouldn't have to rely on luck. The systems approach helps remove that need for luck because there our built-in framework of continual improvement allows us to work through that messiness.

Working through this isn't always just about including persons with disabilities. It's about including persons. People want to work. Organizations want to have workers. Organizations want to function and thrive. So by understanding that we can achieve performance by meeting needs is something that we can't overlook. It's there, you know, it isn't optional.

Or when it becomes optional, then you start to see the tensions and you start to see issues like turnover and other fractures within an organization. by adopting a mantra of continual improvement and building it in, you get inclusion, you get better workplaces, you get better.

Bridgette (34:55)
Very well said. And I bringing that back to some comments made by Dilshan and and Tammy earlier on that notion of really collecting that feedback as well.

continual improvement and continual collection and listening of feedback from the people that are actually a part of your organization and experiencing these different strategies you're embedding is also a meaningful part of the strategy Tammy, do you have anything you would you would like to include

on that notion of why feedback is a strategy and data as a part of this all matters.

Tammy (35:29)
Yeah, I just love Andrew's, comment on humans are messy. I would also say what we see in application is that humans get busy. And in their path of being busy, it's where we don't always make time

an employee who may be challenged in a situation, it takes more time to really get to the root of what those challenges are and solve for them.

so I think having the guardrails, having the systems to help us when we get busy are we making these hiring decisions because it's our tradition, because this is the most familiar,

or are we really looking at the requirements of a job and the performance of an individual and their skills?

Bridgette (36:14)
Thank you so much for sharing that perspective with us. I think that both of these perspectives in tandem are so meaningful because we can come away from this conversation and create a plan and be fueled by excitement. And in practice, as you said, Andrew, humans are messy. And to Tammy's point, people are busy. So it may not be this

perfect environment that we're just bringing our plans and our systems and our excitement into, businesses do change and people change as well. So being prepared for that and having that mindset as well, I think is so important.

Dilshan and do you have anything that you would like to add to the conversation?

perhaps any advice that you might have for leaders who want to make progress but maybe feeling a little overwhelmed by the idea of systems change.

Dilshan (37:07)
Yes, I agree with Tammy and Andrew that when you implement accessibility, you're basically removing drag of organizational performance. When you help persons with disabilities perform, you're removing drag from the entire organization, right? one thing that we didn't yet talk about in this conversation is about the importance of a team, of an accessibility support team. And what our research has

found is that creating a cross-functional accessibility team really helps you to plan for accessibility. Now, think about an accessibility team like a jazz band, not a March band. You have people from all departments. At the University of Guelph for example, our accessibility steering committee, We have people from physical resources, from IT.

from hospitality, from athletics. So it's really a jazz band of different people who do different things, who come together, but then ask critical questions about how to make their own different activities accessible.

What an accessibility support team allows to do for an organization is to take stock, a core activity of a continual improvement philosophy. When you take stock, it helps you to identify what the gaps are. Because

When you know what the gaps are, you can have short wins. You can fix quick things, even if there are things that you can do in the in the short term that you can fix in your IT, in your everyday policies, do them. But you really have to assemble a team and then start with taking stock. once you do those two preliminary things in this continual improvement system change strategy.

it prepares you. it upskills the accessibility team to think about what Andrew earlier mentioned, plan, do, check, act, thinking about accessibility over the long-term horizon. So again, to summarize, Bridgette, I think I can't emphasize enough the importance of creating an accessibility support team that

Emphasizes that accessibility is a shared responsibility. It's not something that a small EDI team within human resources do. it's everybody's job. And empowering your accessibility team to take stock of what the problems are and prioritizing the gaps that you find in stock taking, and then really empowering each other to implement them over time.

Bridgette (39:25)
Well said, Dilshan. Thank you so much for bringing us back to the importance of a team for any sort of culture change or systems change

As we come to a close,

I would love to hear more specifically what is one immediate practical change that an employer can implement? And what is one indicator or signal that they can look for to see if that change is improving over time?

Tammy (39:54)
Accessibility means not having to ask. And so as organizations, when we do have employees who request an accommodation or support, those are opportunities for us to turn our mind to inclusive design so that in the future, others in their situation don't need to go through a rigorous process of requesting accommodations and support.

Tammy (40:15)
I think a pulse check, listening and checking on where you are authentically, right? This requires not a lot of background on systems thinking or the nine domains, but vulnerable leaders who ask questions. So that would be sort of my

one immediate thing you can do. and the indicators come in sort of into the data that we already have. So many organizations have DEI data. They have people pulse data or surveys, employee satisfaction surveys that they use. So we we have the data, but I think we too often look at them at surface level. We're not looking at by rank.

by region, by certain line of business or role into those factors. We know that within that ecosystem, certain teams are more welcoming and more inclusive than others. And can we learn across those teams and across those lines of our business?

Bridgette (41:07)
Well said, thank you so much.

Andrew, over to you. What is your

rapid insight? One change, one signal it's working.

Andrew (41:14)
I think the thing to do is to look for help if you don't know how to do it. there's a misconception, I think, that every organization needs to R&D the entire inclusion effort all on their own. there are different types of guidance out there, best practice guidance and standards, like

Accessibility standards, Canada employment standard that was just came out, or plain language standard, there are places where you can go to get the information that you need. I would say start there is just you know look for help if you to get started. How do you know it's working? well, as part of our research, one thing

That connects to the nine domains framework. And Tammy mentioned it there is a pulse check. Simple sentiment-based, so feeling-based questionnaire, where your organization can get an understanding of how they're doing as it relates to each of the domains. That's where you can focus your activity and

you can really focus your efforts.

Bridgette (42:10)
Thank you so much for that, Andrew.

Dilshan, over to you. Same question. What can you share with our listeners today for one change?

And one signal to look for.

Dilshan (42:21)
one thing that an organization can do is really to talk to their accessibility people. If you have an accessibility officer or a manager or more than one person, talk to them and see what problems that they face. Ask for feedback. What are their barriers? What are the gaps that they see in the workplace?

And you know that disabled inclusion is working finally, if your disabled employees come and tell you that they're happy, that they feel loyal to their organization, that they feel belonged, that's when you know that it's working.

Bridgette (42:51)
Thank you so much for that. definitely hearing that feedback, whether that be informal through a conversation or formal from data surveys and pulse checks and check-ins, are such an important piece of this puzzle.

So, what we've been hearing today is that inclusion does not sit outside of workplace systems, it is shaped by them. The way systems are designed influences how consistently inclusion is experienced across roles, teams, and operational environments. If inclusion is treated as a standalone initiative, as we've spoken about, it'll always depend on individual effort and consistency that will vary.

But when inclusion is embedded into management and workplace systems and supported through continual improvement, it becomes just a part of how businesses operate rather than something that's added on after. For youth with disabilities, including those who are neurodivergent, have intellectual disabilities, or are navigating mental health challenges, sustainable inclusion depends on more than our good intentions.

It depends on systems that are intentionally designed, implemented, and continuously improved to support participation and success. In that sense, inclusion is not a separate objective. It's an outcome of how your workplace system is designed. I would love now to thank our guests, Andrew Dixon, Tammy Morris, and Dilshan Fernando.

And I would also love to thank our funders. This podcast is a part of the 4DY initiative developed by IDEA and is funded by the New Frontiers and Research Fund, Transformation Stream, and the Youth Employment and Skills Strategy, YESS program at Employment and Social Development Canada, In our next episode,

We'll be exploring how systems-based principles can be translated into practice through apprenticeship standards, workplace development pathways, and training structures that support equitable access to skilled trades careers. Stay tuned.