Closing the employment gap in inclusive employment

Well, hello everyone. Welcome to the idea speaker series. My name is Francis Fung and I'm the engagement lead for IDEA and also a senior manager with the skills development and employment team at March of Dimes Canada, which is a national charity that provides supports to people with disabilities. Before we begin, uh please note that this session is being recorded um and the recordings will be made available on our idea website. French interpretation is available for this session. So, you should be able to toggle between English and French using the interpretation button within Zoom. For those of you who may not know much about IDEA, it is a social innovation laboratory focused on helping create stronger and more diverse labor markets that include persons with disabilities through knowledge to practice. IDEA is the acronym for inclusive design for employment access.
Before we start the webinar, I'd like to share a land acknowledgement relevant to the idea national office in Toronto where the National Office of Idea is situated has for thousands of years been the traditional land of the Hiron Wendat. The Senica and most recently the Mississauga�s of the Credit. Today, this land is still home to many indigenous people from across Turtle Island and we are grateful to have the opportunity to conduct our work on it. This acknowledgement is relevant to Toronto and since we are gathered here virtually, we suggest that you think of the communities in your respective locations as well.
This webinar series serves as an opportunity to hear the latest about current topics in the work disability policy arena and learn about activities underway within and beyond IDEA. During the last 10 and 20 minutes of this webinar, we will hold a question and answer period. So, you can type your questions in the Q&A box at any time throughout the presentation and we'll try to answer as many questions as we can at the end of the webinar. So, now let me tell you a little bit about our speakers for today. Uh Kenan Weller and Anna Nelson from uh Live Work Play. Kenan has served as a co-leader and director of communications at live work play uh since 1997 and for over nearly three decades he has worked to advance inclusive policy and practice that expands access to meaningful employment, housing and community life for people with intellectual disabilities and autistic people. As a spokesperson, policy advocate and experienced practitioner. He collaborates with private and public sector employers and partners locally, nationally, and internationally, including Community Living Ontario, Inclusion Canada, and Inclusion International. He holds a master degree from uh Carlton University, and uh he's also an Ontario certified teacher. Welcome, Ken. Anna is the director of employment supports at Live Workplace where she leads the employment team and partners with employers to create inclusive hiring opportunities for people with intellectual disabilities and autistic job seekers. Much of her work focuses on lift workplace partnership with the federal public services which has supported more than 50 indeterminate uh hires across more than 40 departments and continue to grow. Anna has held leadership roles in the developmental services sector in Toronto, Ottawa, and Thunder Bay. She holds a master of education in community reaptation and disability studies from the University of Calgary, which she continues uh which continues to shape her approach to building inclusive workplaces. And welcome, Anna. So, thank you for joining us today, Kenan and Anna. And I'll turn it over to you now.
Excellent. And you're going to advance my slides. I'll just say next. nothing exciting. So, uh, good morning or good afternoon depending on where you're joining us from. Thanks so much for being here. Uh, today we're going to talk about closing the employment gap in inclusive employment and in particular what we've come to see as um a critical and often overlooked aspect of that work. Next,
so we got a wonderful uh wh too fast. I can do that. We got a wonderful uh introduction. Um just a little bit about uh Live or Play. We're a uh nonprofit organization and registered charity that's been growing and evolving since uh 1995. Our focus is on supporting people with intellectual disabilities, autistic persons, and individuals with a dual diagnosis to live, work, and play as valued and included members of their communities. And employment is a very important part of that work. Okay. Next.
Yeah. Okay, you were right. One more.
Perfect. So, uh, over the years we've had the opportunity to work with a wide range of employers across both the public and private sectors. That includes more than 480 hires overall. Be nice when we get to 500. We can say over 500. That's over 230 in the federal public service and more than 250 in the private sector. So what we're sharing today reflects what we've seen firsthand. What tends to work well, what challenges come up, and how things can evolve over time. Next,
uh at a high level, our work is about understanding the people and environments involved and how to bring them together in a way that works well for everyone. We spend time getting to know employers, their needs, their environments, and their teams. And we also spend time getting to know job seekers, their strengths, their interests, and how they work best. From there, we focus on making strong matches, preparing both the workplace and the new hire for a good start, and then staying involved to support long-term success. Next,
so the reality when we look at employment outcomes in Canada, there's still a significant gap. Employment rates for people with disabilities are close to 80%. For people with disabilities overall about 65% but for people with intellectual disabilities it is closer to about 25% and probably less. So despite a lot of effort in this space that gap is still very much there. Next a lot of the work in inclusive employment has focused on preparing individuals for work. that includes skills training, resume development, interview preparation, work experience opportunities and job coaching and all those things absolutely have value. At the same time, we continue to see challenges. We see strong candidates who do not always succeed. We see employers who genuinely want to be inclusive but are not always sure how best to provide support. We see support needs remaining high after hiring. And in many cases, people are not fully included as valued members of the team. Next. So over time we started asking a different question. What if we're focusing our efforts in the wrong place? What if we're solving the wrong problem? Next,
what we began to notice is this. We built systems to prepare people for work, but not workplaces to effectively welcome and support them. This is what we call the preparation gap. Next.
So when workplaces are not prepared, we tend to see a few patterns. Um training is not always adapted. Supervisors may feel unsure, expectations are not clearly communicated, and support becomes reactive instead of proactive. Next,
when things go well, it's not just because the individual's ready. There are usually a few key elements in place. Strong relationships, thoughtful job matching, and preparation before the first day of work. And Anna will take us deeper into that shortly. Next,
one of the biggest shifts in our thinking has been this. More effort up front changes what happens later. It often means less support is needed and leads to more sustainable outcomes. Next,
so over time, our focus has expanded. It's not about moving away from preparing individuals. It's about going beyond that and putting equal emphasis on preparing the workplace. Next, so what do we mean by preparing the workplace? Uh practical steps. So understanding the role, thinking about how the person learns best, planning the onboarding and training in advance, and making sure supervisors feel equipped to support effectively. Next, when that preparation is in place, things feel different right away. Employers feel more confident, relationships are stronger, and there is less need for ongoing external support. Next.
So, just a little comparison. That's with or without uh preparation. Without preparation, we're in a reactive mode and and uncertainty. Um, with preparation, there's more clarity and confidence and support becomes proactive. Next, so the natural next question is, what does this actually look like in practice? How do we move from idea to application? So, it's my pleasure to hand it over to an expert who's been working on that for a very long time, my colleague Anna Nelson.
Great. Thank you, Kenan, and thank you everybody. Great to be here today. Um, I am for sure not an expert. I can promise you that. But I think uh we have learned a lot over the years and uh continue to learn things every day and just really excited to uh be able to be here to share what we've learned over time and have some great discussion afterwards as well. So Kenan sort of went through some of the high level some of the information there. I'm going to dive into some of the uh deeper um details of what this looks like for us. So over time we have developed an approach that really has three main parts. Uh we call it the employment supports model. Uh and though we have made tweaks to this over the years um and we continue to find ways to improve it. Um really these three components have now been our focus for the past 10 years. So they are thoughtful hiring and matching that is a whole sort of process in itself. uh customized onboarding and training and ongoing support and consultation. Um originally we came at this because we were doing a lot of research on the federal government and trying to look at um why weren't people from this population getting jobs. Um and this these three areas came out of consultations by talking to a variety of people and finding out what did they see as the main barrier. So that's where this originally came from. Um, and all three are quite important, but today we're going to focus mostly on that middle piece on this slide. So that's the customized onboarding and training component. Next slide.
So what we're here to talk about today is really preparing for a strong start as it's something that we have sort of really changed in our practices over the years and really find makes a difference um in the long run for everybody. So what this means is that once the person has accepted the job offer um and again we aren't getting into that component of the model today sort of how we get to that but once they have accepted a job offer um it's time to then focus on onboarding and training plan development. Um this is preparing both the employer and the employee and putting things in place before the first day as much as we possibly can. um as we know real world uh we can plan the best we can and some things you know don't work out exactly as planned or things have to move quicker than we anticipated uh but that is our ultimate goal there so sorry next slide yes um so this stage we really find at least in our experience was often underestimated um so it can feel like once someone is hired you know the majority of the work is done I think back even years years ago when we were doing this like we got someone a job and it was like okay you know that's where the majority of the work is done and then we focus on sort of you know first day on and onwards but what we have um found over time is that actually what happens before and during those first few days and weeks has a huge impact on what comes next. Um it's often the difference between something that works and something that does not. Um, it also means shifting away from the mindset of, you know, we're going to figure this out on day one. We'll be there with them and we'll just help them navigate the first day. Um, because we used to automatically send, for instance, we would send an on-site job coach with somebody when they started work and we would often anticipate that, you know, majority of it will figure it out with them and go from there. Um, but we knew that there, you know, there was going to be uh a better way of doing it that would ultimately result in better outcomes. So what does this preparation actually involve? Um sorry Francis and where am I now? I am on slide I think it's 22. Um uh so it's really about thinking things through in advance. Uh so the preparation really needs to happen before day one. So sitting down with the employer and reviewing the roles and responsibilities. So again, we've done that before they've been hired uh to make sure it's a good fit, but really sitting down with that employer and reviewing all that with them. Uh planning the onboarding and training and identifying supports um or accommodations if they are needed. What does that look like for that person? And then really preparing both the employee and the employer as again as much as possible before we before we go. So slide 23. A big big P here and I know you know all of us in our work we we focus on collaboration but I think it is one of the most the biggest pieces of this training plan um is it's not just for us at live work play to be going on and writing this. It's not just for the employer to do it um but it's really to work in collaboration. So this is involving the employment support provider. So in our case, live work play. Um it also involves the new employee, the person who's been hired. Um and also involves the employer, all three people as a collaboration is a key component. Um it's really about building this together. Um and making sure that all all um all partners are contributing.
Next slide.
plan sort of breaks down different aspects of it but one component of it is looking at what the employee needs. So the new uh person who's been hired who live workplace play supports what is it that they need uh to feel ready and know before they start work. So um we want them to feel confident and feel good about going into the first day of work. So this includes things like knowing what to expect in the first few days. you know, what will their first day look like? Where do they go? Who do they need to greet when they arrive at work? Um, helping to understand routines and expectations. Uh, figuring out logistics like how are they getting to work? Do they know their bus route? Have they practiced it? Um, if they happen to miss a bus or things are delayed, do they know who to call at their employer to let them know? You know, we are not their employer, so they shouldn't be calling us, but do they know who to call? Um, if it's in a job for instance like the federal government, do they understand that security piece? Have they been given their pass? Uh, what does that all look like so that they are ready to go come day one? And then also having strategies uh that work for them. So again, this is discussion in advance, but what works for them if things do feel unclear or they feel overwhelmed, what's their strategy for dealing with that? Um, and yeah, a big big just sort of all those components of any of us when we're anticipating that piece of what do I need to know when I start work? Am I am I sure I know where I'm going? Um, who am I greeting? Do I have some maybe uh questions I want to ask? Um questions I want to come back to in case I'm feeling nervous, things like that. So, the list can go on and on. And we do have sort of like a list of things that we would include in a training plan. Um, but also of course this is very specific to each job. So it's hard to say exactly what needs to cover in each one, but it's learning about that specific role and making sure the person feels confident going into it. So on the next slide, we're going to look at what the employer needs to know. So this is things like how does the person learn best? you know, what do they, you know, are they going to learn best um by have one of their colleagues walk them through um different components of what they're learning? Do they learn best by reading things, by watching videos? What is it that they need to to to learn and and feel good about what they're learning for work? Also, like what are their strengths? How do they communicate? and how ultimately will that employer provide effective training and support to those new person. So, it is not general accessibility training. Uh, I'm just going to stop here and make sure you can still hear me. I just got a note saying I have unstable internet connection, but can you still hear me?
We can. There you got crumbly, but we can hear you. Okay. Okay. Do flag it. Please let me know. Um if if something goes wrong, I can I can pull up another connection. Um so back to this. It's not general accessibility training. It's not just like a generic accessibility training. It's really geared to what that particular person needs and what are the things the employer should know about how uh to best support them to thrive in the workplace. So, the examples are sort of endless because we're all different people. But some of the ones that I can think off the top of my head would be things like, you know, soand so might stop making eye contact if they are no longer following the conversation. So, if they've stopped making eye contact, it means as the employer maybe you should pause and kind of go back to and figure out where it is uh that you should revisit. Or maybe it's that, you know, every hour they need to be able to get up and walk around for five minutes rather than waiting for a longer break. Um, can be really a huge variety of things. Um, some people want to communicate in writing, some people prefer to communicate verbally. All those things are really helpful so the employer knows this um and knows how to best sort of communicate and support that person right from day one.
So let's look at some of the practical tips here uh that we also might talk to a manager about. Um and I'm sure many of you also use these things on a regular basis. But things that we will often see are things like checklists. So really breaking tasks down into steps. And sometimes we see a checklist but it might not be in enough detail uh to what the person needs. though they might need to adjust a checklist to really break that down to like what does done look like and breaking down those steps. Um in many cases we're helping employers add some visual instructions as well. So a checklist can often easily be turned into a visual checklist um maybe with some written some visuals depends on the person. Um if it involves a computer often we're encouraging people to also utilize screenshots um or using short videos to demonstrate tasks. So again, depending on how that person learns, we're going to make those suggestions for the employer and be able to walk through all of that. Um, and often we hear the feedback from employers that, you know, they've said, "Oh, you know, with those tips and things that you recommended, um, I'm using that now for other employees." So, not just this one, but I'm trying to figure out specifically what works for every new employee so I can help them. Um but yes, specifically at the end of the day, we are going in with that very um dedicated uh advice uh and suggestions on how to help um and support their their new hire.
So we find in particular for our experience at live work play that this really became a big shift. um it became a shift in the role that we did um based on how we were providing support. What we were doing again was more of that sort of reactive support. We were getting somebody in and like a job coach on site from day one. Uh so we wanted to shift away from that and really think about how we were providing things and could we be doing it in a different and ultimately more sustainable way. Um we've many of us on our team have worked in a variety of organizations in the developmental services sector and say this is pretty consistent across many if not most organizations where um you know a lot of the work is done once the person is in the job instead of the preparation uh piece. So instead of a third party coming in for instance like live work play and doing most of the training the goal really becomes that the employer can lead the onboarding and the training and that they have that confidence beforehand and feel good about it leading up to it so that they're ready to do that. Um, with this more natural workplace relationships develop right from the start, right? They're not relying on so and so at live work play to be sort of the in between the gobetween. Uh, neither the employer is relying on that nor the employee. And that really has resulted in stronger relationships, which is what we want, right? We don't want it to be about us. We want it to be about uh that employer and the new person that they they've hired. And I'm not going to lie, I'd say this was one of the tougher components when we made some shifts about eight years ago in our model. Um it was a sticky point. Uh and it was not sort of welcomed excitedly uh necessarily by the team. Uh I think everyone has come to see that it's really been an incredible transition um with bumps along the way of course. Um, but many many concerns came up when we first presented this to the team that we were going to sort of shift away from doing so much on-site job coaching and look at a different way of doing it. So, we had staff who were more in that role of on-site job coaching who said, "Well, no, it's not possible. You know, people we support are going to need it. They're used to it. That's what we do. They need us to be there." So, that was a comment that we heard from many people. Um, and also we even heard from, you know, for instance, a job developer at the time, you know, said, you know what, this is part of my pitch. This is what I tell new employers is that, you know, don't worry, we're going to have somebody there for at least the first day, maybe the first week, they'll they'll do the training, so you don't even have to worry about it, you know, and and she was worried that, you know, that's part of how she got new employers on board. But over time, I think really everyone started to see that employers actually really appreciated the new approach. Um, people were onboarded and did not necessarily need us there. Um, and in fact thrived without us being present. Um, and things really moved on like in the in the way that we we had anticipated. Um, but it doesn't happen perfectly either with every single one. So, it's not like, you know, this magically goes well and the first day we are never on site. That's not the case. Um, but our goal is to move. Um, that's what we always set out as the goal. And then we work with each individual to see that there might be a scenario where we are going on site and we're helping out and that's fine, too.
Okay. So here we're talking about a few sort of guiding principles that we come back to for all these sort of training plan and onboarding. What are the things that we look at? So it really has to be individualized. So yes, yes, we do have a template of a training plan and things that we follow, tips and guidelines and questions that we want to be including. Of course we do have that um but we have to make sure that it's very individualized um because each person is different is each employer is different. Um we don't want to forget things uh that you know we've learned like oh yeah don't forget to ask this question don't forget to ask that. So it's all included there. Um but we may take components out um when the person is starting. You know, somebody who's working in a job where there's no um you know, no security process to get into a building, they don't need to have that component at all in their plan. Um so we won't worry about it. But other pieces that will maybe be a big component as well. So, it really has helped us sort of see like what do we want to include or at least remember to ask and then we'll take out the parts that aren't important and focus on the ones that uh that matter in that case. So, as much as possible, I know we've said this multiple times, but preparation should be happening before day one. Um we find this is much easier um in the public sector for federal government. Um, if any of you work or have worked in the federal government, there tends to be a long uh sort of ramp leading up to day one. So, there's security process, there's paperwork that has to be filled out. So, in that sense, it's much easier to do this work in advance because you have the time, you have the time to talk to the manager, you have the time to work through it. Whereas, um, our experience in the private sector is sometimes an employer needs someone to start yesterday, right? They need someone to start as soon as possible. So we might not have as much that time to work with them and prepare them. So of course we adjust um we are flexible. We do what we can but when possible try to help the employer and the person get prepared as much as possible before day one. Uh collaborative piece again I touched on that but that is very very important. It's not just for us to write this. Um it's not just for the employer to write it. It's really all three components. the new hire, the employer, and us are all having conversations and making sure that um we're happy with what's included, people are confident and feeling good going into day one. And then ultimately, you know, we really want to make sure that it is building the employer capacity. We want to make sure that they're feeling more confident, they're feeling great about this, they're ready to welcome and include that person and hopefully ready to build skills as well that they can apply um for other new hires uh and other people that they're hiring across the board as well.
So before I'm going to give you a few examples in a few minutes just to sort of walk through two very different situations. Um but uh the idea on sort of building on uh employer capacity, one of the key things we have seen is that preparation builds confidence on both sides. And this is big. Um for many of the people we support entering a new job, they aren't feeling super confident. They might be feeling nervous because other previous jobs have not gone very well. Maybe they haven't been welcomed and included. Um so they're feeling quite anxious about that. Maybe it's their first job and they have nothing to sort of go off of before. So, we want them to feel as confident as possible going into this situation. And with information, of course, comes that confidence as well. We also want the employers to feel equipped. We want them to feel like yes, they've got this. Um, they're learning new skills. They're ready to welcome that person. Um, and that they're, you know, they're feeling good for day one. And really ultimately workplace relationships tend to be stronger from the start. When we did a lot of on jobs on-site job coaching, we would find that you know the person would ask a question of us that they wanted us to ask their employer or the employer would ask a question to us that they really in fact could be asking their new hire. So by taking that sort of component not out completely, we are there you know we're we're not there physically but we're we're around in the background. we're there as a resource. Um, but they are talking more to each other from the beginning. They're learning about what works and doesn't work for each other and there that that relationship is stronger right from the start and that has been a big big component as well. Um, so ultimately this is not a huge surprise as we think about so many things in life. the more we are sort of putting work in advance, the more we're prepared, um, this ultimately equals to feeling more confident and capable going into a situation. Um, and ultimately we're probably seeing about 90% of the time much better over overall results as well.

Okay, so I'm going to jump into two different scenarios here. I'm just going to check the time. Okay, we're doing pretty well for time. Um, so just to make it a little bit more concrete, I'm going to share two different examples. Um, there are two people that are two very different starting points. They have different support needs, but ultimately a shared outcome. And what connects a lot of this is the preparation. Um, and as you're going to see as we go through, preparation for one, uh, still means a lot of hands-on support, and for the other one, it actually results in very little support once the job gets started. So, first I'm going to talk a little bit about a woman named Candace. Uh, she's a young woman who's very kind, very thorough, really hardworking. Um, she came to us with a post-secary degree. um that took her many many years uh to complete. Um partly because she lives with very significant short-term memory challenges. Um this has led to um often being o underestimated when it comes to employment both by employment support providers but also by people in her life through education and potential employers. Um over time she really found that interviews were super challenging for her um and that she faced many barriers along her journey. But when many one of our members of our team met her many years ago um he could really see that she had so much to give and really would become a fabulous employee someday and that yes it was going to take sort of more direct support, more time uh working with her. Um, but ultimately, you know, she was going to be an incredible employee that someone would value at some point. So, one of the main challenges for Candace was around memory and communication. Um, because of the the short-term memory uh issues that she she's facing. So, she often repeats things. She has very a lot of difficulty retaining new information, especially early on. Um, but once she's able to move that information into her long-term memory, it's she's able to pull off tasks incredibly well and go through quite complex things as well. Um, because of that, there were many assumptions made about what she could or couldn't do in the workplace, but we also took into mind like she was able to finish a degree. Um, quite a complex one as well. And so, you know, we knew that yes, time time was needed um but she had these capabilities as well. So, through our matching process and after getting to know both the employer's needs that ultimately ended up hiring her um and their wants and also a lot about her and what she could bring to a workplace, um we were able to find uh find a a really great fit. So, Francis, I'll have you jump next to the preparation before day one. Um so once we sort of went through that matching process and and got her ready uh it was a matter of looking at they were able to let us practice some tools and systems before she started. So again not every workplace can do this. Um but in her situation they were able to do that set her up in a way that she could start looking at that before she started. Um so we had uh time to do that with her in advance and she could feel confident and better about going into it. Um so that was a a you know sort of a big deal I would say. Uh with then with the employer as well a detailed training plan was developed uh and her team and supervisor were prepared very well in advance um because in this case there was a lot more time needed for her to learn and move things into her long-term memory. We were quite a bit more hands-on um than we are with um and by hands-on I guess I mean on site. we were there sort of physically with her for for some time um because of you know maybe five times you know what it would take to to welcome and um on board a new employee. So we still though worked well in advance with them to make sure they understood and could see some of the work that we were doing in advance um and so they could be prepared to um have her learn new skills in the future as well.
So once she started structure or support was very structured. So tasks were broken down step by step. Visual guides and screenshots were also created. Um and over time support was gradually reduced as she became more confident and independent as well. She's now in a permanent role. Um and she loves her job and she has actually gone up as well. I think she started in about 22 hours and has sort of kept increasing that little bit by little bit over time as well and really thriving in her workplace and there are um because of some of the learning needs that she has there are times where pulled back in and a little bit more you know we'll go into the office and and support a bit um but the employer has also really learn these skills to be doing that as well. So what made the difference here was not removing support and said it was putting the right preparation in place uh in so we wanted independence could develop as quickly as possible. Uh it did take time but ultimately it developed so I'm going to move now to another one uh her name is Stacy uh and she was returning to the workforce after about 10 years away. So she had had some experience in the work in the workforce before. Um, not all of it was great. So, she was feeling quite anxious about this. Um, she had a lot of potential, but she really needed confidence rebuilding. So, in her mind, she was coming to us. We were going to find her a job, and we were going to be there to help her navigate that first week or two on site with her. But in time, we realized that really was not going to be what she needed. Um, so we kind of worked with her to figure that out. So for Stacy, um the challenge was not learning job tasks in the same way as Candace. Um but it was more about anxiety around interviews, about limited recent work experience. Like I said, she had worked before, but um not for quite some time, and a lot of uncertainty about re-entering the workforce and what that would mean.
I think one Yeah, perfect. So, so the focus here was very different but still centered on preparation. So, we looked at interview preparation and support, a very clear training plan that was done in collaboration with the employer and making sure expectations and priorities from the employer were well defined right from the start. For her, she needed to know as much as possible. As is the case for many of us, the more we know, the more confident we are. Um, but for her, that was a big big big thing. um that she needed to know as much as possible before she started so she could go into it um and feel confident. The employer knew how important this was for her, really for anyone again, but um she needed this in order to sort of lower her levels of anxiety and feel uh confident uh and knowing that she had the skills to do the job. So, we get to the on the job component. Um there was no on-site job coaching. It did take a while to help her see that she did not need us there. Um, in fact, she would excel without us there. So, a lot of preparation was done before. Um, and support looked more like regular check-ins, gradually introducing tasks over time. Uh, but this was all done by the employer. Um, and we were just sort of, you know, phone call away if needed. and really her independence and her confidence just soared uh once she was there and could could see that in fact she could do it. So Stacy was able to successfully return to work. She was able to perform well in her role and build confidence and independence. So in this case preparation reduced the need for support significantly. Not again because support was not available. We've never had the intention that we want to stop doing what we're doing. we want to stop supporting people. Um it's just been a matter of shifting where we're put our energy. Um for her it was not needed in the same way as it was for Candace. Um and taking the time to figure out what were the barriers and then what support was needed to overcome this was absolutely crucial for her. So we're talking about two very different people with very different starting points and support needs. Uh but really at the end of the day what was consistent is the approach. So a strong job match a lot of preparation before day one making sure the employer was ready and then supports that adjust over time as well.
So what does this ultimately change? Uh so when we step back and sort of look at this approach we start to see some broader changes. We saw that employers tend to feel more confident in their role. They could see that in fact they could do this. It wasn't some uh hard thing that they were anticipating anticipating. Uh employees often gain independence way more quickly and independence but also that interdependence with their colleagues. They're developing those relationships. Um they're getting to know people. They're seeing that they're valued for who they are. um and that they're really a true part of the team. There's also less reliance on ongoing external support. Again, it doesn't mean we walk away, but maybe they contact us less often or sometimes when we send an email or phone call for check-in, maybe they don't even reply because things are going so well. Um and ultimately this leads to more sustainability over time. So, at a bigger level, this reflects a shift in how we think about support. So moving away from reactive to more proactive approach approach um easier said than done of course and it does not mean that every time is perfect and that we're able to prepare perfectly but we do put a lot of focus on that proactive piece as we know that it really pays off now for all involved. So from relying on external supports to building internal capacity within the workplace in many ways we are still relied on but again that is more in that sort of ramp leading up to the start and less from the job start day one um and on. uh we are available, we're there, but you know, people are sort of seem uh more able to to figure things out amongst themselves as well. And from focusing on short-term success to really thinking about long-term sustainability, we focus as much as we as possible on the long game here. What do we want to see long term for both the employer and the employee? Um and we definitely don't want them to be over relying on us. So we do everything we can to to shift away from that. So the bigger impact when we started to see this more consistently, we really saw that the impact goes beyond individual roles. We began to see more inclusive workplaces, more stronger and diverse teams, better retention and overall performance um and ultimately become something that benefits everybody in the workplace as well.
So, we've said this a few times today, but it's really it's not about removing support. Um, but it's instead about placing it where it builds independence. Um, and that's where we're going to see the big difference there and building the capacity and confidence in the employer as well.
So one question sort of for you to take away today as we are sort of thinking through all this and um one thing that we think about on a regular basis um is how prepared um uh sorry wh how prepared is the workplace? So not just how prepared is the candidate but how prepared is the workplace as you support someone to enter the work enter the workforce. I think that will be a a big shift uh for many of you, maybe not for all um but uh that will be a big shift in sort of what you do and how you prepare everyone to get started.
So closing the employment gap means preparing workplaces and not just preparing the people.
And with this, we put this last little bit here, but inclusive hiring does not fail because employers don't care. It fails because they haven't been set up to succeed.
Okay. So, I think we can now take some questions. Any questions you have, we're happy to hear it.
Yeah. Um Anna first of all um thank you for the uh presentation and uh and and Kina uh and Kenan earlier as well and uh sharing the very uh pragmatic approach um with us and you offer a lot of um you know sort of tips and and guidance um in terms of working not only focusing on the work with with the candidates but also on the employer side and I think that aligns uh very well with with what we're trying to do at IDEA as well too. So, um we will move into the uh question and answer period now. And uh just a quick um friendly reminder to the audience. If you're new to uh using the Zoom platform, you should be able to find the Q&A button across the bottom of your screen and you click on that. You should be able to open up uh a separate window and you can type your questions in and we'll try to get to as many as we can. So, let's jump right in. And uh so uh I think we have some questions that uh um from the audience um who are quite curious about like um you know more details about some of the the actions that you can actually take. So um you mentioned about uh you know helping the employers prepared um and so the the question we have uh from from our audience today is so how do you get the information from the new hire um you know regarding like how they learn things because some of those sometimes those things require maybe a little bit of a trial and error and maybe it takes a little bit of time to kind of get to know that individual and and uh you know the individual may also actually needs to get that famil with the environment. before they can kind of comment on their learning style. So, how would you respond to that? Great. Yeah. So, we just a few ways. So, we have um a fairly extensive discovery process that we do with each job seeker as they come to us. Um it's not as extensive maybe as it was a few years ago. We've had to make some uh some adjustments, but we still spend like that's a big component of our model and I didn't get into that today, but we spend a lot of time uh with that individual. We have staff that we call discovery specialists and their job is to you know get to know a job seeker and so they dive deep into like what you know spending time with them. We don't do this in a um uh sort of assessments type way. Instead, we go to their home. We meet them in the community. Um Oh, I'm getting another unstable notice. Can you hear me? Yes. Okay. A little bit my connection not great. Um so, we spend a lot of time, yes. Getting to know them in their home, going for walks, potentially at their school, somewhere they volunteer. um if it's appropriate and their consent to it, we also talk to people who know them well and care about them um so that we can also get some input from them. So it is a many many hour process of us getting to know job seekers and again not through any kind of formal assessment but really relationship based. Um so that's one way. Um the other way is 100% we often learn by seeing people do stuff. So uh sometimes we think a job is a great fit. we have them start a job and then later we might realize that um you know something didn't go didn't go wonderfully with that job or could have been better but what did we learn during that process? So we have like a end of job uh reflection form that we fill out with people whenever they do finish a job to see like what did we learn about that what did we um could we know about what would be a better fit for somebody going forward as well. Um, so a lot of time sort of is is spent on that and then we again learn during it. So sometimes an employer or the person will contact us while they're in employment and say, "Well, this came up." And we're like, "Oh, we didn't didn't realize that. Uh, we didn't realize that might happen." And then we kind of brainstorm at the time and and figure them out figure things out there too. Yeah. Right. So it it sounds like um you're making quite a bit of a commitment, you know, to uh um to support the employers as well as the candidate and uh you talked a little bit about sustainability eventually moving towards independence, but but just uh I guess out of curiosity from our audience like so have your supports been kind of like ongoing for as long as needed or do you kind of mostly focus on sort of the first year?
Yeah. So, we don't officially walk away at any point um without getting into funding discussions uh today. Um there is all that that we have to keep in mind of course, but we never officially walk away. So, you know, if things are going smooth um and maybe we barely hear from an employer and a person, we're checking in maybe a few times a year at that point um but all of a sudden something sort of does come up uh then we get pulled back in and we are more active. So, no, we don't at this point we don't ever stop our support. I see. So, let me ask you a two-part questions next. So, um there's a lot of uh uh preparation uh it sound like um before the individual actually take on the job. Um, so do you have any recommendations in terms of like recruitment and and the interview contacts part of it and and is there a danger in terms of like overpreparing and is slowing down the hiring decision
I want to make sure I understand you're talking about for the employer. Yeah. So you're you're you were talking about um you know helping the employer kind of gets to know the candidates and vice versa and and so on. So is there any particular um strategies that you you you also incorporate in terms of the actual hiring and the interview um portion of the journey and is there a danger in terms of overpreparing and and um slowing down that hiring decision? You know employers may not feel that they're ready yet because you know we're still doing a lot of preparation that kind of thing. Yeah. So we are very cognizant of that. We don't ever want to slow things down. like we want, you know, if they're ready to hire, we want to figure that out and make sure it happens sort of on the timeline that they're hoping for as long as we feel that it's going to happen pretty well. Like we want to be as natural as possible in that way, too. We don't want to say you have to go through and we don't say, you know, you have to go through a six week process. It's nothing like that. It's sort of very natural with the person um and just making sure things are prepared. Um but yeah sometimes we have people start you know in two days and then very little of the preparation can be done way in advance and it is more sort of uh during that time. Um but in a question to your um interview question. So we do also support employers to think about maybe doing interviews a little bit differently what that could look like how to do maybe more of an informal interview. uh what might work for each of the person the people that they're interviewing because that is a big barrier for many people that we support. Um and then helping them navigate uh that portion of it so that people aren't uh excluded from their workforce just because uh interviews sort of aren't their strength, right? Um so we um have some interest in terms of uh um you know policy influence and um and structure and so on. So you talk about workplace being ready. Um, is there any ways that you have been measuring, you know, employer confidence and and workplace readiness in sort of a reliable way? And and in your experience working with the government as well, um, have they recognized this model and and has there been any talk about making this maybe sort of a a mandatory training for all the HR folks within the public services? Anything like that? No, nothing mandatory at this point. Um but yes, how do we decide if an employer is ready? That's a good We don't have a specific sort of tool that we just declare, you know, they're ready. Um but we look at things. I guess the number one thing is are they willing? Are they willing to communicate? Are they open to trying new things? That would be our number one sign that this employer is ready because nobody is going to be perfect. And we have to be careful as well in that sometimes an employer comes to us and says like uh we're not ready or we need to get all these things in place. Um but at the end of the day, you know, I don't know that anyone's ever going to feel, you know, you could come up with excuses forever or do a million training. Um but they're going to become more ready by just doing it. So by practice, by meeting people, by seeing that it's maybe not something that they've built up to be so complicated. Um that's the thing. So I think being open to it, uh being ready to collaborate, be ready to communicate. Uh those are the things that make someone ready and recognize that there is no perfect situation. No one's going to get 100% in being an inclusive employer. Um other than just trying. I see. Um I guess uh another question that we have um more about so a lot of effort you're putting in in in place and and sometimes funding comes into a bit of a question. Um so how do how do how would you make a case for um you know funding for doing preparation work that may you know take some time and immediate outcomes are not there.
Oh hi Ken. There's Kina back. Um, how would we make the case for that? Well, I think just seeing that I mean one of the biggest cases is careers for people. So often when we get stuck, I mean the royal we, not just live, work, play, but anyone gets stuck in a position of trying to hit, you know, targets for having people start work or things like that, we're not actually looking at long-term sustainability necessarily in that case. you know, people will be coming back into the system and back into the system and back into the system. Um, but looking at, you know, if we can help people get into actual careers and help employers do this really well, at the end of the day, you know, less funding is going to be needed. It's I'm not saying that's going to happen in a year or two years or 5 years, but down the road less funding is going to be needed because um people are you know in a career rather than shifting you know I'm at this job for 3 months and now I'm going to this job for two months and and things like that. Um and then the employers are going to be ready to welcome and include people too. So helping that idea I think shift away from not just a job but ideally moving people toward towards more careers is big. Um and uh we really see that putting that work in there helps with that. Right. Okay. Um so uh we only have a few more minutes so maybe we'll try to take one or uh two depending on how quickly we can get through it. um natural workplace supports were uh mentioned um and I'm not the most familiar with sort of the definition of that. So how do you implement that and how do you identify these uh um uh barriers that that would lead um natural approach so to speak and I think Kenan may want to jump on this one. Sure Anna that's our our brilliant friend Angela Black asking these questions. So yeah, so I think a lot of what uh Anna spoke to in this presentation about uh the amount of time and resources put into preparation. So part of that includes we don't want to end up with a situation where we have replaced um the natural supports of a workplace. So what that's talking about is uh what all of us do every day. We need help with certain things. Um it's not a big process. We just ask a colleague um or a colleague notices um that we need help. So uh we don't want to replace that with a model that suggests that um because the person has a disability you don't have that um they have some kind of uh external person or there's only one person that can help them. Uh so we want to build into that by understanding the relationships in the workplace. So, uh, in a natural course of things, where do people go for, you know, help with the printers or, uh, you know, who does the social committee? What what goes on here? Um, how do people really get help with things? Um, and and make sure it's not just the supervisor, but also in that unit or the team or wherever the person's working. Um, how do people get help when they're new on the job and naturally um, learning things? So, sometimes we're able to identify that in a workplace assessment. We kind of get a sense of how things go. Oh, I get it. it's Joe that people really go to when you know with this type of thing is happening. So I think those are you know natural workplace supports um somewhat in the formal sense of kind of who's the keeper of the knowledge of certain things but also just in the everyday sense of we want to make sure that we haven't accidentally made it seem like uh don't offer this person help they have an expert or uh you know liver only liver play does that uh we want the natural relationship of they will help you you will help them and your colleagues right very collaborative Yeah, I'm going to add one thing in there in that interestingly a lot of our new jobs come from people who are natural supports like who are a colleague to someone whether this is in the federal public service or uh within the private sector you know we often get reachouts from someone saying oh hi I'm now at this new company um and I used to work with soand so at my last company um and I had such a great experience I just got to know them as a colleague but I really loved it and now I'm a hiring manager and now I want to hire them or not hire them but I want to hire somebody through live work play. So could count many many situations that have come up like this. So I think just also co-workers who have that opportunity to to work with somebody that maybe they wouldn't have worked with in any other situation and then realize and see um what you know a great team member they are how hardworking uh the gifts that they bring and then they want to then hire and do that make their new workplace uh inclusive as well. Yeah. Well, um, unfortunately we're out of time and, uh, I want to thank you once again for being here and I always enjoy speaking with the two of you and and thank you for giving us some really practical um, you know, sort of tips and and strategies and um, think look at things very holistically, you know, um, and really encouraging um, the collaboration um, on that and and really think about um, all the differences, you know, uh, that you could make uh along the journey. So I really appreciate uh that. Um so just a quick reminder for the audience that uh the recordings when is available we will post it on our idea website um and please reach out to us via email um and visit our website if you haven't done so. And uh if you have any questions or suggestions regarding um what maybe uh even topics that you would like to hear about uh certainly get in touch with us and follow us on social media as well. I want to also thank our French interpreter for uh helping us out today. And uh thank you for taking the time to join us and uh we hope you have a nice weekend and uh see you next time.