The IDEA Initiative — A year one update
Podcast
Description
In our Season 5 opener, the two guests who were with us on our 2023 season opener, are back to give us an update on year one of the Inclusive Design for Employment Access initiative, or IDEA for short.
A quick recap: IDEA is a six-year research project being done with $9 million of federal funding under Canada’s New Frontiers in Research Fund. IDEA is reimagining how Canadian workplaces can be more inclusive for people who have a disability.
It’s been almost a year since IDEA officially launched in May 2023, and we wanted to find out what’s been happening since then.
Listen to this great year one update conversation with Dr.Emile Tompa and Dr. Rebecca Gewurtz, who lead the IDEA initiative.
Transcript
Transcript
you-cant-spell-inclusion-without-a-d-episode-19.txt
00:02
You can't spell inclusion without a D, the podcast that explores the power of inclusion and why disability is an important part of the workplace diversity and inclusion conversation. Produced by the Ontario Disability Employment Network, with your hosts, Jeanette Campbell and Dean Askin.
00:26
Hi there and welcome back to another season of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. This is episode 19. I'm Dean Askin here with you as we kick off season five of the show. And hello and welcome back from Me Too. I'm Jeanette Campbell and back with you at the other mic. Also back for this episode of 2024 at their respective mics are the two guests who are with us on our 2023 season opener.
00:53
That's right, Jeanette. They're back to give us an update on year one of the inclusive design for employment access initiative, or IDEA for short. Now, if you missed our original conversation with Dr. Emile Thompa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz about IDEA, that's episode eight. And a quick recap. IDEA is a six year research project being done with $9 million in federal funding under Canada's new Frontiers in Research Fund.
01:23
can be more inclusive for people in this country who have a disability. It's been almost a year since IDEA officially launched, and we wanted to find out what's been happening since then. So back with us are Dr. Emile Tompa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz. They're leading the IDEA initiative. Dr. Emile Tompa is a senior scientist at the Institute for Work and Health in Toronto and an associate professor in the Department of Economics at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.
01:52
He's also an assistant professor at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto. And Dr. Rebecca Gortz is an occupational therapist and associate professor in the School of Rehabilitation Science at McMaster University. Now, Jeanette, I'm pretty sure this is going to be another conversation with Emile and Rebecca that'll have our listeners glued to their speakers or their earbuds, because these two are both just so passionate about what they're doing with IDEA, and it...
02:22
really comes across. Emile and Rebecca, welcome back to You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. Well, it's a delight to be back. We're really excited to tell you about what we've been up to over the last year. Yeah, I can't believe it's in some ways, I can't believe it's only been a year. We've been so busy and we were excited to share this, uh, our journey with you. Well,
02:45
That's a great way for us to start the conversation then, because that's exactly what we were hoping to start talking about. So, Emil, let's start with you. What's been happening on the IDEA Initiative since we talked to you about a year ago? Oh my gosh, where to start? It's been a very crazy busy, very exciting year, actually. So quite a number of things happening over this last year. I should maybe just start up with our launch that we did in May.
03:15
of last year, May 2023, was a day-long event, which was held in person. We also had an option of joining virtually, and we had an amazing lineup of speakers. I just found them so inspiring. People telling us about their lived experiences, some of our partners telling us about the things they're doing in their space, a number of our academics who are talking about the kind of things that they're going to be doing over this.
03:43
the year ahead kind of thing. So it was a really lovely day to kind of team build, tell the world about what we're doing, hear people's stories and move forward in this initiative and let everybody know that we're here and we're here to make change, I guess, ultimately, in a partnered co-design way that's really reflective of the team spirit that we need to move forward and to move the needle ahead in inclusive employment.
04:13
And Rebecca, what about you? What's been happening for you on the initiative since we talked? Well, Emile and I work together very closely and the launch was certainly a full team effort. But beyond the launch and well, after the launch and all the amazing speakers, we've continued to engage
04:38
with many community organizations and individuals across Canada. The hubs have continued to do amazing work and we have a large roster of projects underway. Many evidence-based efforts and research and with products that are coming soon.
05:07
So, you know, this is a long-term initiative and we're expecting some of those early products to be ready, become ready for release shortly. The other thing that's been really exciting is the engagement of students across Canada, diverse students across Canada who've become really interested in the work of IDEA and the idea of interdisciplinary partnered research.
05:36
And these are students of all levels from undergraduate to graduate students, and we're starting to recruit postdoctoral students as well. So really exciting to see that engagement and that building up of capacity in this area. Yeah, I'm glad you're mentioning the postdocs because those calls are still open for a little bit and they're really important parts of our capacity building students in general. We really want to...
06:04
Forge the way forward for a new generation of academics doing work of the sort that we're doing that's very partner driven, that's community based, that's really action oriented, you know, knowledge to practice that really focuses on facilitating uptake of that knowledge in the field. So the post-docs are a good way of building up some of that capacity. We have two of them that I'll do a shout out about. One of them is with Odin actually, which is a post-doctoral fellow that's
06:33
In honor of our former Lieutenant Governor David Onley, that we are looking to fill a space where a person can do some really great quantitative work in this space around understanding the benefits of inclusion across organizations, across systems, across Canada. And then the second one that's in honor of Marcia Riu, a colleague of ours.
06:58
was part of our Center for Research on Work Disability Policy. So that postdoc is really focusing on qualitative research and the really deep roots we need to understand about what's happening in this space, I mean the field and synthesizing that knowledge to get a good handle on the best practices going forward for organizations to be more inclusive. So those are two of our current calls that are open for people interested in this kind of work.
07:25
I want to jump in here for a minute. And you've kind of sort of touched on a few of the things that stick out in your mind. Are there, you know, are there other things that are real highlights that are like, you know, uber exciting over the past year? Okay. Well, there's quite a bit as my list is quite long. I actually tried to write it out and I got exhausted just putting together the list. And we, we launched our speaker series last fall as well. So we have a monthly speaker come and talk about what they're doing in this space. We've started off with some of our key.
07:55
Co-investigators will open it up to others who are working in our partnership group and beyond to have an ongoing dialogue with our audience about some of the great stuff that's happening in the area of inclusive employment, really focused on knowledge to practice type initiatives. I'm involved in a number of best practice guides in the form of standards as well, so some of those have been out for public review.
08:20
One of them is with the CSA Group on ETIA in the trades and internship programs. Another one is about inclusive employment with accessibility standards in Canada. So I think those will be out sometime this year for organizations to pick up and run with. So I think that's a really good part of what we're doing is building up that knowledge in best practice guidance that's been standardized for broad application. Rebecca, anything else stick out in your mind over the year?
08:49
Yeah, for me what sticks out is the engagement that we've been doing across the sector with organizations of different sizes and the different ways that just being able to think about the different ways that we can work with these organizations and in some cases it's just talking about the work that they're doing and in some cases we're able to really get involved in support.
09:18
some of the some evaluation of some of the initiatives that they're doing or help them build capacity and look at scaling across the sector or conducting different types of reviews that can inform the work that they're doing. So that kind of engagement that's been leading our process has been really exciting and to see the idea of the idea of social innovation
09:47
by different people with different backgrounds. To me, that's been really exciting and a real privilege and opportunity, yeah. Might I also mention the project we're doing with Ontario Federation of Labour, where we're doing a train the trainer workshop on inclusive design. And this is a collaboration, as I mentioned with Ontario Federation of Labour, we've done a couple of pilots last year, and we're looking to scale that up.
10:17
Ontario with all of the constituencies that are part of the Ontario Federation of Labour. I think that's a really important way to get people up to speed on on how to do inclusive by design approaches in the workplaces and our colleagues at the Ontario Federation of Labour are really keen on making this happen with their constituency so we're really looking forward to continuing those pilots and scaling up that initiative this year. So
10:46
What have been some of the challenges of making all these things happen over the last year? Because this is all new. You're working with hubs across the country and everybody's got to do coordinated things. What are the challenges of it all? Yeah, maybe I could, I could start for me, one of the challenges and, uh, you know, Emile has a bit more experience than I do have these large initiatives. Um, and, and I'm a bit new to this. So for me, the real challenge has been
11:14
I think there's two major challenges. One has been really, as I mentioned, there's so many opportunities and it's such a privilege to be invited into some of these organizations to learn about the work that they're doing. And it's been really a challenge to be able to think what can we take on? Like we wanna get some stuff done here and there's a real risk of spreading ourselves too thin and obviously ideas not the only...
11:43
research initiative in this space. So what makes sense for IDEA to prioritize and really run with, and what are the other ways in which we can support the other initiatives? So really sort of sorting that out and making at times some difficult decisions, but also decisions that are for the best of both IDEA and the various organizations. And then I think one of the challenges for doing
12:13
partner-based research that is focused on knowledge to action is, you know, staying in the realm of research, knowing that there's other people in the space doing some of the consultancy work and the service provision work and making sure that we really sort of think what is the research that, what is the research skills that we offer as an organization.
12:43
and differentiating ourselves in that way about what the value added of idea is. So I think we've been successful at doing that, but we've had to be very intentional in the work that we do. Yeah, I agree. The biggest challenge for me too has been just juggling all the various competing demands on our time.
13:09
and triaging, prioritizing, what do we do first, what do we park for later, that kind of thing. So there's a lot of decisions that we have to weigh on a regular basis with our team to make sure we're hitting the right notes at the right time. The other part of that too is the talent recruitment part of it. We have so many demands in our projects for students, for post-docs, for others to help support the development of these projects. And just doing that talent.
13:38
takes time as well. We've got a great roster of folks at our national office and on some of the projects that we've got up and running, really great teams, but that's a constant for us is like the talent-recruiting part of it. There's an investment there as well for us to find the right people. We're really prioritizing people with lived experience as well, so we really try to walk the talk. And that part is an important part.
14:06
The work we do is a reflection of the teams we've built up, and we want to make sure we do this in the best way possible. And you know, that's such an interesting challenge, because it's actually something that people don't really talk about a lot. We talk about the challenge of the work of the project, but it's interesting and really informative, I think, for people to understand some of the challenges of putting together these teams that are going to be able to do this incredible work.
14:34
and being able to source that talent and source it in such a meaningful and intentional way. But you know, I want to touch on another thing you were talking about, you know, that you've got things like the speaker series that you've launched, the work you're doing with the Federation of Labour and the train the trainer on inclusive design. So I'm wondering, what are some of some of the key things that you're learning right now about employers?
15:02
workplaces, workspaces that is related to disability inclusion? Um, I can go first. I think we're learning a lot is the answer. We're learning, um, you know, how to navigate, um, partnering with organizations that are complex and ever-changing, um, that, um, you know, we, we,
15:30
how to leverage our network to really get some of this work done, that things can get stuck at different points for various reasons, despite everybody's good intentions. So those are some of the challenges we're learning about and how to work through. I think we're also learning that there's a lot of really exciting stuff out there. I don't think I really realized how much...
16:00
how much innovation is happening on the ground and that much of the work that IDEA can do and the value that we can offer is beginning to showcase that work and through research. And so that's been some of the stuff that I've learned about.
16:27
Yeah, I hear you, Rebecca, and I agree. There's so many interesting things happening out there. Very inspiring to see all of the different facets of this space that I didn't know existed because we're being approached quite regularly by organizations within Canada and internationally as well about wanting to learn more about what we're doing, wanting to partner and things like that. And it's really interesting to see how many layers. Most recently, I was approached by an organization from the US that's...
16:55
just started up a couple of years ago, it was a group of several colleagues, academics from Harvard who developed a not-for-profit that's developing indicators for workplaces to use to measure progress in this space and related spaces and make them available and standardize them across the US, I guess, for them and internationally as well. And I was just thinking that that's such an important part of it because what gets measured gets attended to, as we all know, it's an-
17:25
saying that many people use, but we don't always have good measures to identify where the gaps are, what we're doing well, what we need to prioritize, and so they're trying to develop some standardized ones because standardization is another important part of measurement because you want to compare yourself sometimes with your peers, so you want to see what are sort of the...
17:48
averages in your field in certain spaces and be certain that what you're comparing is a meaningful comparison. So I thought, wow, that's a great space to be in. And we were continuing the conversation with them about how we can support the process. So there's always new things like that arising that we thought, oh, wow, here's another great thing we could get involved in and help support or promote. And it's a complex field. And the other...
18:17
element that Rebecca mentioned too that is a really critical thing is just dealing with the complexity of organizations and the different actors in the space, particularly large organizations. And some of that takes a bit of time and investment to understand how they operate. We're doing a couple of big projects with the federal government that have many layers to them. And so we really want to understand how they operate and how what we're doing can weave into building more capacity for them.
18:46
internally and making sure it works with where they're at currently and where they want to go in their journey. And that's a very customized product, so it takes time and investment of both the research part of it and also the facilitating uptake part of it can be a large investment of people time. And sometimes you don't realize that the front end when you get into some of these projects and you think, okay, well.
19:14
We can add this new project on it becomes bigger than you imagine and it requires a lot more resources. In some ways we need to think about having that excess capacity a little bit at the margin so that we can build in these extra layers into what we're doing to make sure what we're doing is the best possible going forward. Yeah, well that makes me think about Rebecca's earlier point around the challenges about
19:39
you know, really just understanding exactly what it is that you can take on because you do run that risk of spreading yourself too thin. Because you're just uncovering so much information and in your so many people are reaching out and and there's so many opportunities to engage and go in different directions with this so that's really exciting. I'm wondering, is there anything that you've learned so far that you weren't expecting to learn yet.
20:08
I think there's a couple things for me. One was I don't think I fully appreciated how much already exists. Like I think sometimes when we're proposing to do work, we say, okay, we're gonna create this, we're gonna create that. And I see students doing that all the time. And how important it is to actually do an environmental scan or a scan of what already exists because we don't need, there's so much to do.
20:37
we don't need to waste time duplicating efforts. And yeah, so I think that an appreciation for how much already exists is really important. Now there's reasons sometimes that we're not aware of what already exists because it hasn't been scaled or it hasn't been disseminated or perhaps it even hasn't been evaluated, but.
21:04
not having to start from scratch is a really interesting, a really important point in research that I think isn't emphasized. I don't think I fully appreciated how important that step is. Yeah, so I think that's number one there for me. That's a big one.
21:30
is understanding how much is already out there. And so that's what a great lesson to learn in year one, not four years down the road. Exactly. Emil, what about you? Yeah, no, but I just want to add to what Rebecca says and we're very much aware of it in some respects that we don't know what we don't know. And part of what we're doing at the front end, actually, Alec Farquhar, our lead for engagement is doing a scan with us on looking at...
21:59
promising practices that organizations are currently doing. It's low-level stuff maybe that's happening that we don't know about that we could consider generalizing to different contexts and seeing how well it works in different types of contexts. So that's part of one of our foundational projects where we're working with industry to understand where they're at, some of their challenges too, but also learning about what they find is working well for them so that we can pick up and run with that rather than reinventing those kinds of things. But in terms of...
22:27
One of the things I feel I'm learning is about the challenges of doing very accessible websites and social media more broadly. We're about to launch our permanent website. We have a temporary landing page up currently. And we really want to walk the talk as we try to do with all of our work, but making sure it's accessible as possible using the latest standards around WK 2.1 AAA to be sure that all the...
22:55
most up-to-date features are there. There's quite a bit of involvement, investment, of people time and learning as well about the different options you have to entertain to make sure it's a site that is accessible for different needs. And so we've been putting a lot of time into that on almost a daily basis. We have meetings to make sure we're reaching all of our targets because we're trying to get this launched for April of this year.
23:24
And so, you know, that was a learning curve for us, I think. We had an external group develop the foundations of it, and then the rest of it were doing it in-house before we launched, doing a soft launch in early April, we're hoping. Emile, you made me think of the entire episode we did last season on the show about making, you know, making web accessibility and the web accessible for all. You know, you mentioned a couple of minutes ago that you've been...
23:53
getting contacted by other organizations wanted to be involved, how easy or difficult has it been to get businesses involved in this initiative? Good question. Do you start? Sounds like you're about to say something, Rebecca. I think what I would say is that businesses, we have found that businesses and different employers are generally really interested.
24:22
want to participate and want to engage, I think there are challenges and many organizations, especially in the post-pandemic labor market and the post-pandemic workplace, they have limited resources and limited time and despite intentions and dedication and a desire,
24:51
sometimes that can be a challenge. And so to work with these organizations, we really have to sort of meet them where they're at and sort of figure out what makes sense. But I think in general, businesses, the idea of becoming an inclusive employer is very appealing. That's been my experience, but there are challenges to engagement for sure. Yeah.
25:18
Yeah, I would say that certain workplace stakeholders have come on board with quite a bit of excitement and energy, like the Ontario Federation of Labour, which I mentioned, federal and provincial governments as employers themselves, industry associations, we've also had service providers, community groups who work with employers coming forward, wanting to move forward in this space and partner with us. The employers themselves are a little bit more challenging, as Rebecca notes.
25:47
given that they have limited time. But I'm not sure if we've gone that direction in as big a way as we're planning to going forward. We're just starting up doing piloting of resources in workplaces, so I think over this next year, we'll be coming full board with reaching out to employers about helping facilitate piloting some of these resources and tools that we're developing. And we'll have a better handle on some of the challenges in kind of finding.
26:16
helping them find time to really move forward with some of their efforts that they very much want to do as they become inclusive employees, but carving out the space to help facilitate that kind of evaluation process that we feel is really important as part of our piloting. Well, we're probably gonna be up against that in a big way, I think, over this next year. If I could just add, I think we have an awareness of that, that there are certain workplaces that
26:46
have more capacity to engage. And I think the public sector is an example of that. And people, employers that are in this space already, like service providers and disability organizations and so forth, even though we know the Canadian labor market tend to be made up of smaller businesses, I think we have to start where there's capacity.
27:15
make sure that as we're building tools and resources, we think about their relevance to the smaller organization. So I think we always knew that that was going to be the case because we have an awareness of the reality of organizations. So I don't think that's been a huge surprise. I just think it's built into our process. So let's take a step back from that for a minute for our
27:43
may not have heard our original conversation last season. And again, that was episode eight. For all the things you've said about the challenges that business face and the commitment that they have, why is the IDEA initiative so important overall? So well, employers in Canada, as Rebecca and I have mentioned too, they really want to improve their capacity to recruit, hire, and promote persons with disabilities. There's labor shortages.
28:10
even ourselves, I mentioned that we're struggling to recruit talent. So being better at this is an important thing for organizations in order to be sustainable, to be productive. But they lack the skills and confidence. And that's where we've come into this space to think about how we, as a knowledge to practice initiative, can work with our partners to do co-design, to facilitate building up.
28:37
the knowledge base through tools and resources that we will pilot test, evaluate, and scale up in the field. So we really focus on what we describe as demand-side capacity building, so helping employers be more inclusive in the way they recruit talent and retain talent. And that's sort of the angle that we're taking. In the past, a lot of effort's been put into skilling up workers, getting them job ready, which is important, but our focus, we feel is like...
29:06
on the employer side because it's great to have workers ready and willing to take up jobs, but if the employers don't have the capacity for that uptake because they lack that confidence, that know-how of how to do that well kind of thing, we're always going to be finding that barrier that there's jobs just aren't out there, people aren't getting employed because the employers aren't up to speed on how to do this well. Rebecca, what do you think?
29:34
I agree with everything that Emile has said. What I can maybe add is I think entering into this work at this time, the timing kind of, things kind of lined up because there's a real understanding of the importance of having an inclusive workplace where employers have the capacity to hire, retain and promote workers with different skills and backgrounds.
30:03
And also I think the post pandemic workplace has been a real, in some ways, a bit of an opportunity to really rethink how people work together and how we can make these spaces and places and relationships more inclusive. So I think.
30:27
That's really what the idea initiative is about, is trying to build on that momentum through research. Yeah, we're strong believers in knowledge to practice and also co-designing, working with our partners to find solutions, evaluate them, scale them up in a particular field across the country.
30:49
I think it really requires partnership. You know, as we mentioned earlier, there's so many people working in this space. We need to work together. If we're going to make change in a big way, and we would like to see Canada be a role model for other countries of inclusive employment practices, inclusive societies. And so working together with all the people in this space is absolutely a critical thing. But a strong belief in knowledge of practice and knowledge that we can then share with everybody.
31:15
who's looking to make change. If you're at the workplace level, at the systems level, wherever you're at kind of thing, building up that knowledge for everybody to pick up and run with is really critical for us. So through our social media, through our website, we really wanna share whatever we develop with the public to make it available. There was something else we touched on in our original conversation, but I just wanna throw it out there again. What's the, do you think is the single most important
31:45
message for businesses in all of this. Well, I would say, well, I'm sure Rebecca has something to add here too, but I would say it's not so complicated or costly. A lot of times we sense that there's an apprehension to go down this bit because they think it's going to be costly, that they don't have the know-how or the capacity to do it, so they shy away from it. And I would just say to the workplace stakeholders that it's not so complicated.
32:14
You're not eating it alone too. There's so many great resources out there, stuff that we're developing, stuff that some of our partners have developed. Sometimes it's just being a bit more aware of what's out there and putting your best foot forward. You're not gonna solve all of your problems in one day. It's a continual improvement process, but you take a few steps to start off identifying maybe if you have recruitment challenges, how you can be more inclusive in your recruitment process.
32:43
and then build it into other layers of your human resources system, mentorship and advancement of persons with disabilities. Thinking about a journey and where that starting point is and just going forward with it and seeing what's out there. There's people and resources and tools to help you on that journey. Yeah, and building on what Emile has said, because I agree with everything that has been said,
33:13
The business case for hiring workers with disabilities and the positive impact that can have on an organization has been out there for a while. I think what we are saying is that, you know, there's a need to actually build capacity within the organization and that...
33:40
organizations are already doing a lot of great things. They're not starting from scratch, but it's important to go through an intentional process of taking stock, what they're already doing. And when there is innovation, I think it's really important to really evaluate that and to share it. And as an organization, ideas about knowledge to action, and I...
34:09
I think we want to eliminate this idea of these innovations happening across Canada in silence. We want them to be showcased and shared because as a society, as a country, as an economy, we want everyone to benefit from this built capacity that already exists and continue to build on that. So I think that would be...
34:38
an important message to businesses is that we really want to celebrate their successes and build on that capacity. Exactly. And, you know, Rebecca, that sort of brings me to one of the next areas we wanted to unpack a little bit. And it's that, you know, this initiative is focused on rethinking and reshaping workplaces in Canada to make them more inclusive. But both of you have been talking about sort of, you know,
35:07
Canada is a role model about the actual reach and the potential for this. And, you know, Emil, you said you're already being contacted, you know, from the US, I think you said it was Harvard, you know, reaching out to find out about this project and what it is you're doing and how to work together. So, you know, ultimately, do you think IDEA could make a global impact through sharing what it is that you're learning?
35:34
Yeah, we live in a global world for sure. Yeah, Emil, you go ahead first. No, no, no, we're both on the same page. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I don't think we could not do that. I mean, the only way this is gonna work, not just the work we're doing, but the work we're all doing this space has to have an international reach because Canada is not in a siloed space. It's connected within the global economy. And so we really need to think about how
36:01
what we do in Canada is connected with what others are doing in other countries. I mean, when we think about EDIA, equity, diversity, inclusion, accessibility in industry, well, we need to think about supply chains, right? And a lot of those supply chains cut across jurisdictional boundaries. It's, you know, procurement is one of the priority areas in the Accessible Canada Act. It's a key part of one of our guidance pieces within accessibility planning
36:31
In fact, one of the next projects we're doing in one of the incubator hubs is guidance on EDIA in the supply chain because it's absolutely critical. You can't think about it as just being the things that your organization is doing, but all the people you connect with in your supply chain and your clients. It's really critical that we take a global perspective for this to really work well and be sustainable as well.
37:00
Oftentimes, we're trying to connect it with other things that are happening in the international scene around sustainability, like the ESG model, everything about environmental issues, social issues, governance issues. That disability lens has to be part of those things because we can't do sustainability without being inclusive of the diversity of people in that market. It's just not a realistic option. You can't be environmental if you're not thinking about...
37:29
the human condition and making sure that everybody has a place to participate and be included and belong, right? Also feeds into the governance notion as well, you know to be sustainable in your governance You need to think about community, right and you're the impact you have in your local community in your National community and in the global community. So I think we we just need to go down that space I think about how we don't tailor integrate with the broader
37:59
international kind of economy and the reach that organizations have around the globe. So with all that inclusivity and reaching out and people interested in it, how can people and businesses and organizations get in touch with you about getting involved in the idea initiative? So pretty soon we're going to have a fully launched website that people can visit and
38:29
and you know everything that we do is going to be available on the website and shared like the idea here is that things are shared widely and freely and without restriction. So I believe Emile do you have the website up in front of you? Yes, yeah I do well www.
38:58
with an E at the end, dash idea dot CA. We also have a general email that people can reach out to called info at fray idea dot CA. And then we have a national office team that people can reach out to as well. Sabrina Chowdhury is our national manager S Chowdhury, C H A U D H R Y at IWH dot ON dot CA.
39:27
So there's various ways that people can connect with us. Our temporary landing page also has an option to subscribe to our newsletter and our social media platforms. We have a number of different social media platforms. So there's various ways that they can connect with us. The key thing is just reach out through our website, through our info at freyaidea.ca, email, and join our initiative in some way. Come to our webinar series.
39:56
reach out to us about partnering or just forward all the materials that you come across on our website to your colleagues through your own social media platforms. We have LinkedIn, we have Macedon, we have X as well, so we have a number of different platforms that we're trying to connect with people in this space. So there's lots of good ways that people will be able to connect with you, a variety of different ways that they can get to you, and I love that you're saying, you know, share information with us.
40:26
get involved, come to our speaker series, come and learn, come and participate, give us your resources and information too. Dean, I'm wondering, are we going to be able to post the contact information so that people will have an easier time getting in touch? We will definitely be putting all that contact information in the show notes and when the episode goes up and the social posts
40:55
They'll be mentioned there too Okay, that's super so we'll make sure people know how to find you. So, you know now this first year which has been Incredibly busy and engaging and exciting, you know now that this first year is pretty much behind you. What's next? What do you want to accomplish in? year to idea Yeah, I think we're at a really vital point an idea
41:24
You know, we've built some of these networks, it's ongoing. We've done some of these scans, also ongoing. But I think what the next big milestone is going to be starting to release some of the tools developed in-house, sharing it, evaluating, looking at really beginning to translate new knowledge to
41:54
to the field. And I think that's really where we're focused. And that's why the website is a critical platform to help us do that. Obviously, we're not just gonna be posting things on the website and hope that people come to it. We'll be much more actively translating tools and resources to the field.
42:20
Not all the tools and resources that we share actively will be developed in-house. Many will be through our partner organizations and IDEA will have various roles in that process. But, you know, I think that's really going to be an exciting time where we start really not only supporting organizations towards inclusion, but to actually say, and here's...
42:48
some tools that can help you along that process. And here's some evidence-based practices that can support the work you're doing. So I think this is really pivotal in the idea journey. Yeah, I totally agree. Over this next year, certainly building up all of our social media platforms to have as broad a reach as possible, facilitating uptake and scaling across.
43:18
you know, whatever, an industry, a field across Canada, of the tools and resources that we are developing and that others have developed as well that we're helping promote will be absolutely critical because we really ultimately want to have a substantive and measurable impact in the employment of persons with disabilities. So that is our end goal is to make, I guess, transformative change by having an impact in this field. So we want to...
43:45
make sure we're facilitating that happening by not just ending our efforts with development of those tools and resources, but the scaling part is really, really critical for us as well. Well, I knew this was going to be another fun, dynamic conversation, and you've told us so much about year one of the IED initiative. I mean, I have to ask before we wrap things up, you know, have we covered all the essentials about year one, or is there anything else you think is important for us to mention?
44:15
There's a lot we could go through. There's a long list. As I mentioned, I started PrepareList and there's quite a few things that are underway. I think the main thing I would like to say is just ask people to reach out to us, to partner with us, to collaborate with us, to connect with us in some way, become part of this broader initiative that we're all part of.
44:40
in order to make change, we need to work together. So I think it's really critical that we connect with each other, and I just encourage anybody who's listening to this podcast to become part of that wave of change. And to join, like us on our speaker series, to join the newsletter so that you can be aware of some of the exciting work that's happening and connect where relevant, for sure. Well.
45:08
You know, I just have to say thank you so much for coming back on the show to help us kick off our 2024 season. And truthfully, I want to know what everything else was on your list, Emil. So I'm looking forward to our next conversation about idea. You're going to have to, it sounds like, come back every year for the duration of this to keep us up to date on what's happening in this really important initiative. Oh, we'd be happy to.
45:38
Thank you very much for the invitation. And in the meantime, as well, thank you. And in the meantime, as Dean said, we have put some links into the show notes so that people can go to, that people can go to so they can learn more about all the different ways that they can engage and participate, or just learn about the inclusive design for employment access initiative. That's right, Jeanette. Check out those links.
46:07
Do make sure if you haven't, do catch that original conversation with Emile and Rebecca about idea if you haven't already. Once again, one more time, it's episode eight from 2023. You know, I'm like you, Jeanette, I'm already looking forward to next season's update from Emile and Rebecca because it's like I said earlier, their enthusiasm and passion is just infectious and it just well, it always makes for a great conversation. So Dr. Emile Thampa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz.
46:36
I would just again like to say thank you for once again helping us kick off a new season of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D with the update on what's happening with the reimagining of how we can make workplaces more disability inclusive. Thank you, we've been delighted to be part of this conversation. Well thanks from me as well, Emile and Rebecca. You know, next episode we're going from inclusion to ableism.
47:03
Joining me as guest co-host will be Odin's own Dr. Jennifer Krausen. We'll be talking with two guests who have some insights about why ableism is still happening in the workplace in 2024. It's many forms and what can and needs to be done about it. That's coming later this month on April 23rd. And until then, that's a wrap for this 2024 season opener of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. I'm Jeanette Campbell. And I'm Dane Askin.
47:31
Thanks again for listening wherever, whenever, and on whatever podcast app you're listening from. Join us each episode as we have insightful conversations, much like this one, and explore disability inclusion in business and in our communities from all the angles. You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D is produced in Toronto, Canada by the Ontario Disability Employment Network. All rights reserved. Our podcast production team, executive producer and host, Jeanette Campbell.
48:00
Producer Sudefo, Associate Producer and host Dean Askin, audio editing and production by Dean Askin. Our podcast theme is Last Summer by Ixen. If you have feedback or comments about an episode, contact us at info at odinnetwork.com. That's info at O-D- Join us each episode for insights from expert guests as we explore the power of inclusion.
48:27
the business benefits of inclusive hiring, and why disability is an important part of the diversity, equity, and inclusion conversation. Listen to You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D on Podbean or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
You can't spell inclusion without a D, the podcast that explores the power of inclusion and why disability is an important part of the workplace diversity and inclusion conversation. Produced by the Ontario Disability Employment Network, with your hosts, Jeanette Campbell and Dean Askin.
00:26
Hi there and welcome back to another season of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. This is episode 19. I'm Dean Askin here with you as we kick off season five of the show. And hello and welcome back from Me Too. I'm Jeanette Campbell and back with you at the other mic. Also back for this episode of 2024 at their respective mics are the two guests who are with us on our 2023 season opener.
00:53
That's right, Jeanette. They're back to give us an update on year one of the inclusive design for employment access initiative, or IDEA for short. Now, if you missed our original conversation with Dr. Emile Thompa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz about IDEA, that's episode eight. And a quick recap. IDEA is a six year research project being done with $9 million in federal funding under Canada's new Frontiers in Research Fund.
01:23
can be more inclusive for people in this country who have a disability. It's been almost a year since IDEA officially launched, and we wanted to find out what's been happening since then. So back with us are Dr. Emile Tompa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz. They're leading the IDEA initiative. Dr. Emile Tompa is a senior scientist at the Institute for Work and Health in Toronto and an associate professor in the Department of Economics at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario.
01:52
He's also an assistant professor at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at the University of Toronto. And Dr. Rebecca Gortz is an occupational therapist and associate professor in the School of Rehabilitation Science at McMaster University. Now, Jeanette, I'm pretty sure this is going to be another conversation with Emile and Rebecca that'll have our listeners glued to their speakers or their earbuds, because these two are both just so passionate about what they're doing with IDEA, and it...
02:22
really comes across. Emile and Rebecca, welcome back to You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. Well, it's a delight to be back. We're really excited to tell you about what we've been up to over the last year. Yeah, I can't believe it's in some ways, I can't believe it's only been a year. We've been so busy and we were excited to share this, uh, our journey with you. Well,
02:45
That's a great way for us to start the conversation then, because that's exactly what we were hoping to start talking about. So, Emil, let's start with you. What's been happening on the IDEA Initiative since we talked to you about a year ago? Oh my gosh, where to start? It's been a very crazy busy, very exciting year, actually. So quite a number of things happening over this last year. I should maybe just start up with our launch that we did in May.
03:15
of last year, May 2023, was a day-long event, which was held in person. We also had an option of joining virtually, and we had an amazing lineup of speakers. I just found them so inspiring. People telling us about their lived experiences, some of our partners telling us about the things they're doing in their space, a number of our academics who are talking about the kind of things that they're going to be doing over this.
03:43
the year ahead kind of thing. So it was a really lovely day to kind of team build, tell the world about what we're doing, hear people's stories and move forward in this initiative and let everybody know that we're here and we're here to make change, I guess, ultimately, in a partnered co-design way that's really reflective of the team spirit that we need to move forward and to move the needle ahead in inclusive employment.
04:13
And Rebecca, what about you? What's been happening for you on the initiative since we talked? Well, Emile and I work together very closely and the launch was certainly a full team effort. But beyond the launch and well, after the launch and all the amazing speakers, we've continued to engage
04:38
with many community organizations and individuals across Canada. The hubs have continued to do amazing work and we have a large roster of projects underway. Many evidence-based efforts and research and with products that are coming soon.
05:07
So, you know, this is a long-term initiative and we're expecting some of those early products to be ready, become ready for release shortly. The other thing that's been really exciting is the engagement of students across Canada, diverse students across Canada who've become really interested in the work of IDEA and the idea of interdisciplinary partnered research.
05:36
And these are students of all levels from undergraduate to graduate students, and we're starting to recruit postdoctoral students as well. So really exciting to see that engagement and that building up of capacity in this area. Yeah, I'm glad you're mentioning the postdocs because those calls are still open for a little bit and they're really important parts of our capacity building students in general. We really want to...
06:04
Forge the way forward for a new generation of academics doing work of the sort that we're doing that's very partner driven, that's community based, that's really action oriented, you know, knowledge to practice that really focuses on facilitating uptake of that knowledge in the field. So the post-docs are a good way of building up some of that capacity. We have two of them that I'll do a shout out about. One of them is with Odin actually, which is a post-doctoral fellow that's
06:33
In honor of our former Lieutenant Governor David Onley, that we are looking to fill a space where a person can do some really great quantitative work in this space around understanding the benefits of inclusion across organizations, across systems, across Canada. And then the second one that's in honor of Marcia Riu, a colleague of ours.
06:58
was part of our Center for Research on Work Disability Policy. So that postdoc is really focusing on qualitative research and the really deep roots we need to understand about what's happening in this space, I mean the field and synthesizing that knowledge to get a good handle on the best practices going forward for organizations to be more inclusive. So those are two of our current calls that are open for people interested in this kind of work.
07:25
I want to jump in here for a minute. And you've kind of sort of touched on a few of the things that stick out in your mind. Are there, you know, are there other things that are real highlights that are like, you know, uber exciting over the past year? Okay. Well, there's quite a bit as my list is quite long. I actually tried to write it out and I got exhausted just putting together the list. And we, we launched our speaker series last fall as well. So we have a monthly speaker come and talk about what they're doing in this space. We've started off with some of our key.
07:55
Co-investigators will open it up to others who are working in our partnership group and beyond to have an ongoing dialogue with our audience about some of the great stuff that's happening in the area of inclusive employment, really focused on knowledge to practice type initiatives. I'm involved in a number of best practice guides in the form of standards as well, so some of those have been out for public review.
08:20
One of them is with the CSA Group on ETIA in the trades and internship programs. Another one is about inclusive employment with accessibility standards in Canada. So I think those will be out sometime this year for organizations to pick up and run with. So I think that's a really good part of what we're doing is building up that knowledge in best practice guidance that's been standardized for broad application. Rebecca, anything else stick out in your mind over the year?
08:49
Yeah, for me what sticks out is the engagement that we've been doing across the sector with organizations of different sizes and the different ways that just being able to think about the different ways that we can work with these organizations and in some cases it's just talking about the work that they're doing and in some cases we're able to really get involved in support.
09:18
some of the some evaluation of some of the initiatives that they're doing or help them build capacity and look at scaling across the sector or conducting different types of reviews that can inform the work that they're doing. So that kind of engagement that's been leading our process has been really exciting and to see the idea of the idea of social innovation
09:47
by different people with different backgrounds. To me, that's been really exciting and a real privilege and opportunity, yeah. Might I also mention the project we're doing with Ontario Federation of Labour, where we're doing a train the trainer workshop on inclusive design. And this is a collaboration, as I mentioned with Ontario Federation of Labour, we've done a couple of pilots last year, and we're looking to scale that up.
10:17
Ontario with all of the constituencies that are part of the Ontario Federation of Labour. I think that's a really important way to get people up to speed on on how to do inclusive by design approaches in the workplaces and our colleagues at the Ontario Federation of Labour are really keen on making this happen with their constituency so we're really looking forward to continuing those pilots and scaling up that initiative this year. So
10:46
What have been some of the challenges of making all these things happen over the last year? Because this is all new. You're working with hubs across the country and everybody's got to do coordinated things. What are the challenges of it all? Yeah, maybe I could, I could start for me, one of the challenges and, uh, you know, Emile has a bit more experience than I do have these large initiatives. Um, and, and I'm a bit new to this. So for me, the real challenge has been
11:14
I think there's two major challenges. One has been really, as I mentioned, there's so many opportunities and it's such a privilege to be invited into some of these organizations to learn about the work that they're doing. And it's been really a challenge to be able to think what can we take on? Like we wanna get some stuff done here and there's a real risk of spreading ourselves too thin and obviously ideas not the only...
11:43
research initiative in this space. So what makes sense for IDEA to prioritize and really run with, and what are the other ways in which we can support the other initiatives? So really sort of sorting that out and making at times some difficult decisions, but also decisions that are for the best of both IDEA and the various organizations. And then I think one of the challenges for doing
12:13
partner-based research that is focused on knowledge to action is, you know, staying in the realm of research, knowing that there's other people in the space doing some of the consultancy work and the service provision work and making sure that we really sort of think what is the research that, what is the research skills that we offer as an organization.
12:43
and differentiating ourselves in that way about what the value added of idea is. So I think we've been successful at doing that, but we've had to be very intentional in the work that we do. Yeah, I agree. The biggest challenge for me too has been just juggling all the various competing demands on our time.
13:09
and triaging, prioritizing, what do we do first, what do we park for later, that kind of thing. So there's a lot of decisions that we have to weigh on a regular basis with our team to make sure we're hitting the right notes at the right time. The other part of that too is the talent recruitment part of it. We have so many demands in our projects for students, for post-docs, for others to help support the development of these projects. And just doing that talent.
13:38
takes time as well. We've got a great roster of folks at our national office and on some of the projects that we've got up and running, really great teams, but that's a constant for us is like the talent-recruiting part of it. There's an investment there as well for us to find the right people. We're really prioritizing people with lived experience as well, so we really try to walk the talk. And that part is an important part.
14:06
The work we do is a reflection of the teams we've built up, and we want to make sure we do this in the best way possible. And you know, that's such an interesting challenge, because it's actually something that people don't really talk about a lot. We talk about the challenge of the work of the project, but it's interesting and really informative, I think, for people to understand some of the challenges of putting together these teams that are going to be able to do this incredible work.
14:34
and being able to source that talent and source it in such a meaningful and intentional way. But you know, I want to touch on another thing you were talking about, you know, that you've got things like the speaker series that you've launched, the work you're doing with the Federation of Labour and the train the trainer on inclusive design. So I'm wondering, what are some of some of the key things that you're learning right now about employers?
15:02
workplaces, workspaces that is related to disability inclusion? Um, I can go first. I think we're learning a lot is the answer. We're learning, um, you know, how to navigate, um, partnering with organizations that are complex and ever-changing, um, that, um, you know, we, we,
15:30
how to leverage our network to really get some of this work done, that things can get stuck at different points for various reasons, despite everybody's good intentions. So those are some of the challenges we're learning about and how to work through. I think we're also learning that there's a lot of really exciting stuff out there. I don't think I really realized how much...
16:00
how much innovation is happening on the ground and that much of the work that IDEA can do and the value that we can offer is beginning to showcase that work and through research. And so that's been some of the stuff that I've learned about.
16:27
Yeah, I hear you, Rebecca, and I agree. There's so many interesting things happening out there. Very inspiring to see all of the different facets of this space that I didn't know existed because we're being approached quite regularly by organizations within Canada and internationally as well about wanting to learn more about what we're doing, wanting to partner and things like that. And it's really interesting to see how many layers. Most recently, I was approached by an organization from the US that's...
16:55
just started up a couple of years ago, it was a group of several colleagues, academics from Harvard who developed a not-for-profit that's developing indicators for workplaces to use to measure progress in this space and related spaces and make them available and standardize them across the US, I guess, for them and internationally as well. And I was just thinking that that's such an important part of it because what gets measured gets attended to, as we all know, it's an-
17:25
saying that many people use, but we don't always have good measures to identify where the gaps are, what we're doing well, what we need to prioritize, and so they're trying to develop some standardized ones because standardization is another important part of measurement because you want to compare yourself sometimes with your peers, so you want to see what are sort of the...
17:48
averages in your field in certain spaces and be certain that what you're comparing is a meaningful comparison. So I thought, wow, that's a great space to be in. And we were continuing the conversation with them about how we can support the process. So there's always new things like that arising that we thought, oh, wow, here's another great thing we could get involved in and help support or promote. And it's a complex field. And the other...
18:17
element that Rebecca mentioned too that is a really critical thing is just dealing with the complexity of organizations and the different actors in the space, particularly large organizations. And some of that takes a bit of time and investment to understand how they operate. We're doing a couple of big projects with the federal government that have many layers to them. And so we really want to understand how they operate and how what we're doing can weave into building more capacity for them.
18:46
internally and making sure it works with where they're at currently and where they want to go in their journey. And that's a very customized product, so it takes time and investment of both the research part of it and also the facilitating uptake part of it can be a large investment of people time. And sometimes you don't realize that the front end when you get into some of these projects and you think, okay, well.
19:14
We can add this new project on it becomes bigger than you imagine and it requires a lot more resources. In some ways we need to think about having that excess capacity a little bit at the margin so that we can build in these extra layers into what we're doing to make sure what we're doing is the best possible going forward. Yeah, well that makes me think about Rebecca's earlier point around the challenges about
19:39
you know, really just understanding exactly what it is that you can take on because you do run that risk of spreading yourself too thin. Because you're just uncovering so much information and in your so many people are reaching out and and there's so many opportunities to engage and go in different directions with this so that's really exciting. I'm wondering, is there anything that you've learned so far that you weren't expecting to learn yet.
20:08
I think there's a couple things for me. One was I don't think I fully appreciated how much already exists. Like I think sometimes when we're proposing to do work, we say, okay, we're gonna create this, we're gonna create that. And I see students doing that all the time. And how important it is to actually do an environmental scan or a scan of what already exists because we don't need, there's so much to do.
20:37
we don't need to waste time duplicating efforts. And yeah, so I think that an appreciation for how much already exists is really important. Now there's reasons sometimes that we're not aware of what already exists because it hasn't been scaled or it hasn't been disseminated or perhaps it even hasn't been evaluated, but.
21:04
not having to start from scratch is a really interesting, a really important point in research that I think isn't emphasized. I don't think I fully appreciated how important that step is. Yeah, so I think that's number one there for me. That's a big one.
21:30
is understanding how much is already out there. And so that's what a great lesson to learn in year one, not four years down the road. Exactly. Emil, what about you? Yeah, no, but I just want to add to what Rebecca says and we're very much aware of it in some respects that we don't know what we don't know. And part of what we're doing at the front end, actually, Alec Farquhar, our lead for engagement is doing a scan with us on looking at...
21:59
promising practices that organizations are currently doing. It's low-level stuff maybe that's happening that we don't know about that we could consider generalizing to different contexts and seeing how well it works in different types of contexts. So that's part of one of our foundational projects where we're working with industry to understand where they're at, some of their challenges too, but also learning about what they find is working well for them so that we can pick up and run with that rather than reinventing those kinds of things. But in terms of...
22:27
One of the things I feel I'm learning is about the challenges of doing very accessible websites and social media more broadly. We're about to launch our permanent website. We have a temporary landing page up currently. And we really want to walk the talk as we try to do with all of our work, but making sure it's accessible as possible using the latest standards around WK 2.1 AAA to be sure that all the...
22:55
most up-to-date features are there. There's quite a bit of involvement, investment, of people time and learning as well about the different options you have to entertain to make sure it's a site that is accessible for different needs. And so we've been putting a lot of time into that on almost a daily basis. We have meetings to make sure we're reaching all of our targets because we're trying to get this launched for April of this year.
23:24
And so, you know, that was a learning curve for us, I think. We had an external group develop the foundations of it, and then the rest of it were doing it in-house before we launched, doing a soft launch in early April, we're hoping. Emile, you made me think of the entire episode we did last season on the show about making, you know, making web accessibility and the web accessible for all. You know, you mentioned a couple of minutes ago that you've been...
23:53
getting contacted by other organizations wanted to be involved, how easy or difficult has it been to get businesses involved in this initiative? Good question. Do you start? Sounds like you're about to say something, Rebecca. I think what I would say is that businesses, we have found that businesses and different employers are generally really interested.
24:22
want to participate and want to engage, I think there are challenges and many organizations, especially in the post-pandemic labor market and the post-pandemic workplace, they have limited resources and limited time and despite intentions and dedication and a desire,
24:51
sometimes that can be a challenge. And so to work with these organizations, we really have to sort of meet them where they're at and sort of figure out what makes sense. But I think in general, businesses, the idea of becoming an inclusive employer is very appealing. That's been my experience, but there are challenges to engagement for sure. Yeah.
25:18
Yeah, I would say that certain workplace stakeholders have come on board with quite a bit of excitement and energy, like the Ontario Federation of Labour, which I mentioned, federal and provincial governments as employers themselves, industry associations, we've also had service providers, community groups who work with employers coming forward, wanting to move forward in this space and partner with us. The employers themselves are a little bit more challenging, as Rebecca notes.
25:47
given that they have limited time. But I'm not sure if we've gone that direction in as big a way as we're planning to going forward. We're just starting up doing piloting of resources in workplaces, so I think over this next year, we'll be coming full board with reaching out to employers about helping facilitate piloting some of these resources and tools that we're developing. And we'll have a better handle on some of the challenges in kind of finding.
26:16
helping them find time to really move forward with some of their efforts that they very much want to do as they become inclusive employees, but carving out the space to help facilitate that kind of evaluation process that we feel is really important as part of our piloting. Well, we're probably gonna be up against that in a big way, I think, over this next year. If I could just add, I think we have an awareness of that, that there are certain workplaces that
26:46
have more capacity to engage. And I think the public sector is an example of that. And people, employers that are in this space already, like service providers and disability organizations and so forth, even though we know the Canadian labor market tend to be made up of smaller businesses, I think we have to start where there's capacity.
27:15
make sure that as we're building tools and resources, we think about their relevance to the smaller organization. So I think we always knew that that was going to be the case because we have an awareness of the reality of organizations. So I don't think that's been a huge surprise. I just think it's built into our process. So let's take a step back from that for a minute for our
27:43
may not have heard our original conversation last season. And again, that was episode eight. For all the things you've said about the challenges that business face and the commitment that they have, why is the IDEA initiative so important overall? So well, employers in Canada, as Rebecca and I have mentioned too, they really want to improve their capacity to recruit, hire, and promote persons with disabilities. There's labor shortages.
28:10
even ourselves, I mentioned that we're struggling to recruit talent. So being better at this is an important thing for organizations in order to be sustainable, to be productive. But they lack the skills and confidence. And that's where we've come into this space to think about how we, as a knowledge to practice initiative, can work with our partners to do co-design, to facilitate building up.
28:37
the knowledge base through tools and resources that we will pilot test, evaluate, and scale up in the field. So we really focus on what we describe as demand-side capacity building, so helping employers be more inclusive in the way they recruit talent and retain talent. And that's sort of the angle that we're taking. In the past, a lot of effort's been put into skilling up workers, getting them job ready, which is important, but our focus, we feel is like...
29:06
on the employer side because it's great to have workers ready and willing to take up jobs, but if the employers don't have the capacity for that uptake because they lack that confidence, that know-how of how to do that well kind of thing, we're always going to be finding that barrier that there's jobs just aren't out there, people aren't getting employed because the employers aren't up to speed on how to do this well. Rebecca, what do you think?
29:34
I agree with everything that Emile has said. What I can maybe add is I think entering into this work at this time, the timing kind of, things kind of lined up because there's a real understanding of the importance of having an inclusive workplace where employers have the capacity to hire, retain and promote workers with different skills and backgrounds.
30:03
And also I think the post pandemic workplace has been a real, in some ways, a bit of an opportunity to really rethink how people work together and how we can make these spaces and places and relationships more inclusive. So I think.
30:27
That's really what the idea initiative is about, is trying to build on that momentum through research. Yeah, we're strong believers in knowledge to practice and also co-designing, working with our partners to find solutions, evaluate them, scale them up in a particular field across the country.
30:49
I think it really requires partnership. You know, as we mentioned earlier, there's so many people working in this space. We need to work together. If we're going to make change in a big way, and we would like to see Canada be a role model for other countries of inclusive employment practices, inclusive societies. And so working together with all the people in this space is absolutely a critical thing. But a strong belief in knowledge of practice and knowledge that we can then share with everybody.
31:15
who's looking to make change. If you're at the workplace level, at the systems level, wherever you're at kind of thing, building up that knowledge for everybody to pick up and run with is really critical for us. So through our social media, through our website, we really wanna share whatever we develop with the public to make it available. There was something else we touched on in our original conversation, but I just wanna throw it out there again. What's the, do you think is the single most important
31:45
message for businesses in all of this. Well, I would say, well, I'm sure Rebecca has something to add here too, but I would say it's not so complicated or costly. A lot of times we sense that there's an apprehension to go down this bit because they think it's going to be costly, that they don't have the know-how or the capacity to do it, so they shy away from it. And I would just say to the workplace stakeholders that it's not so complicated.
32:14
You're not eating it alone too. There's so many great resources out there, stuff that we're developing, stuff that some of our partners have developed. Sometimes it's just being a bit more aware of what's out there and putting your best foot forward. You're not gonna solve all of your problems in one day. It's a continual improvement process, but you take a few steps to start off identifying maybe if you have recruitment challenges, how you can be more inclusive in your recruitment process.
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and then build it into other layers of your human resources system, mentorship and advancement of persons with disabilities. Thinking about a journey and where that starting point is and just going forward with it and seeing what's out there. There's people and resources and tools to help you on that journey. Yeah, and building on what Emile has said, because I agree with everything that has been said,
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The business case for hiring workers with disabilities and the positive impact that can have on an organization has been out there for a while. I think what we are saying is that, you know, there's a need to actually build capacity within the organization and that...
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organizations are already doing a lot of great things. They're not starting from scratch, but it's important to go through an intentional process of taking stock, what they're already doing. And when there is innovation, I think it's really important to really evaluate that and to share it. And as an organization, ideas about knowledge to action, and I...
34:09
I think we want to eliminate this idea of these innovations happening across Canada in silence. We want them to be showcased and shared because as a society, as a country, as an economy, we want everyone to benefit from this built capacity that already exists and continue to build on that. So I think that would be...
34:38
an important message to businesses is that we really want to celebrate their successes and build on that capacity. Exactly. And, you know, Rebecca, that sort of brings me to one of the next areas we wanted to unpack a little bit. And it's that, you know, this initiative is focused on rethinking and reshaping workplaces in Canada to make them more inclusive. But both of you have been talking about sort of, you know,
35:07
Canada is a role model about the actual reach and the potential for this. And, you know, Emil, you said you're already being contacted, you know, from the US, I think you said it was Harvard, you know, reaching out to find out about this project and what it is you're doing and how to work together. So, you know, ultimately, do you think IDEA could make a global impact through sharing what it is that you're learning?
35:34
Yeah, we live in a global world for sure. Yeah, Emil, you go ahead first. No, no, no, we're both on the same page. Yeah, yeah, of course. I mean, I don't think we could not do that. I mean, the only way this is gonna work, not just the work we're doing, but the work we're all doing this space has to have an international reach because Canada is not in a siloed space. It's connected within the global economy. And so we really need to think about how
36:01
what we do in Canada is connected with what others are doing in other countries. I mean, when we think about EDIA, equity, diversity, inclusion, accessibility in industry, well, we need to think about supply chains, right? And a lot of those supply chains cut across jurisdictional boundaries. It's, you know, procurement is one of the priority areas in the Accessible Canada Act. It's a key part of one of our guidance pieces within accessibility planning
36:31
In fact, one of the next projects we're doing in one of the incubator hubs is guidance on EDIA in the supply chain because it's absolutely critical. You can't think about it as just being the things that your organization is doing, but all the people you connect with in your supply chain and your clients. It's really critical that we take a global perspective for this to really work well and be sustainable as well.
37:00
Oftentimes, we're trying to connect it with other things that are happening in the international scene around sustainability, like the ESG model, everything about environmental issues, social issues, governance issues. That disability lens has to be part of those things because we can't do sustainability without being inclusive of the diversity of people in that market. It's just not a realistic option. You can't be environmental if you're not thinking about...
37:29
the human condition and making sure that everybody has a place to participate and be included and belong, right? Also feeds into the governance notion as well, you know to be sustainable in your governance You need to think about community, right and you're the impact you have in your local community in your National community and in the global community. So I think we we just need to go down that space I think about how we don't tailor integrate with the broader
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international kind of economy and the reach that organizations have around the globe. So with all that inclusivity and reaching out and people interested in it, how can people and businesses and organizations get in touch with you about getting involved in the idea initiative? So pretty soon we're going to have a fully launched website that people can visit and
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and you know everything that we do is going to be available on the website and shared like the idea here is that things are shared widely and freely and without restriction. So I believe Emile do you have the website up in front of you? Yes, yeah I do well www.
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with an E at the end, dash idea dot CA. We also have a general email that people can reach out to called info at fray idea dot CA. And then we have a national office team that people can reach out to as well. Sabrina Chowdhury is our national manager S Chowdhury, C H A U D H R Y at IWH dot ON dot CA.
39:27
So there's various ways that people can connect with us. Our temporary landing page also has an option to subscribe to our newsletter and our social media platforms. We have a number of different social media platforms. So there's various ways that they can connect with us. The key thing is just reach out through our website, through our info at freyaidea.ca, email, and join our initiative in some way. Come to our webinar series.
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reach out to us about partnering or just forward all the materials that you come across on our website to your colleagues through your own social media platforms. We have LinkedIn, we have Macedon, we have X as well, so we have a number of different platforms that we're trying to connect with people in this space. So there's lots of good ways that people will be able to connect with you, a variety of different ways that they can get to you, and I love that you're saying, you know, share information with us.
40:26
get involved, come to our speaker series, come and learn, come and participate, give us your resources and information too. Dean, I'm wondering, are we going to be able to post the contact information so that people will have an easier time getting in touch? We will definitely be putting all that contact information in the show notes and when the episode goes up and the social posts
40:55
They'll be mentioned there too Okay, that's super so we'll make sure people know how to find you. So, you know now this first year which has been Incredibly busy and engaging and exciting, you know now that this first year is pretty much behind you. What's next? What do you want to accomplish in? year to idea Yeah, I think we're at a really vital point an idea
41:24
You know, we've built some of these networks, it's ongoing. We've done some of these scans, also ongoing. But I think what the next big milestone is going to be starting to release some of the tools developed in-house, sharing it, evaluating, looking at really beginning to translate new knowledge to
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to the field. And I think that's really where we're focused. And that's why the website is a critical platform to help us do that. Obviously, we're not just gonna be posting things on the website and hope that people come to it. We'll be much more actively translating tools and resources to the field.
42:20
Not all the tools and resources that we share actively will be developed in-house. Many will be through our partner organizations and IDEA will have various roles in that process. But, you know, I think that's really going to be an exciting time where we start really not only supporting organizations towards inclusion, but to actually say, and here's...
42:48
some tools that can help you along that process. And here's some evidence-based practices that can support the work you're doing. So I think this is really pivotal in the idea journey. Yeah, I totally agree. Over this next year, certainly building up all of our social media platforms to have as broad a reach as possible, facilitating uptake and scaling across.
43:18
you know, whatever, an industry, a field across Canada, of the tools and resources that we are developing and that others have developed as well that we're helping promote will be absolutely critical because we really ultimately want to have a substantive and measurable impact in the employment of persons with disabilities. So that is our end goal is to make, I guess, transformative change by having an impact in this field. So we want to...
43:45
make sure we're facilitating that happening by not just ending our efforts with development of those tools and resources, but the scaling part is really, really critical for us as well. Well, I knew this was going to be another fun, dynamic conversation, and you've told us so much about year one of the IED initiative. I mean, I have to ask before we wrap things up, you know, have we covered all the essentials about year one, or is there anything else you think is important for us to mention?
44:15
There's a lot we could go through. There's a long list. As I mentioned, I started PrepareList and there's quite a few things that are underway. I think the main thing I would like to say is just ask people to reach out to us, to partner with us, to collaborate with us, to connect with us in some way, become part of this broader initiative that we're all part of.
44:40
in order to make change, we need to work together. So I think it's really critical that we connect with each other, and I just encourage anybody who's listening to this podcast to become part of that wave of change. And to join, like us on our speaker series, to join the newsletter so that you can be aware of some of the exciting work that's happening and connect where relevant, for sure. Well.
45:08
You know, I just have to say thank you so much for coming back on the show to help us kick off our 2024 season. And truthfully, I want to know what everything else was on your list, Emil. So I'm looking forward to our next conversation about idea. You're going to have to, it sounds like, come back every year for the duration of this to keep us up to date on what's happening in this really important initiative. Oh, we'd be happy to.
45:38
Thank you very much for the invitation. And in the meantime, as well, thank you. And in the meantime, as Dean said, we have put some links into the show notes so that people can go to, that people can go to so they can learn more about all the different ways that they can engage and participate, or just learn about the inclusive design for employment access initiative. That's right, Jeanette. Check out those links.
46:07
Do make sure if you haven't, do catch that original conversation with Emile and Rebecca about idea if you haven't already. Once again, one more time, it's episode eight from 2023. You know, I'm like you, Jeanette, I'm already looking forward to next season's update from Emile and Rebecca because it's like I said earlier, their enthusiasm and passion is just infectious and it just well, it always makes for a great conversation. So Dr. Emile Thampa and Dr. Rebecca Goertz.
46:36
I would just again like to say thank you for once again helping us kick off a new season of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D with the update on what's happening with the reimagining of how we can make workplaces more disability inclusive. Thank you, we've been delighted to be part of this conversation. Well thanks from me as well, Emile and Rebecca. You know, next episode we're going from inclusion to ableism.
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Joining me as guest co-host will be Odin's own Dr. Jennifer Krausen. We'll be talking with two guests who have some insights about why ableism is still happening in the workplace in 2024. It's many forms and what can and needs to be done about it. That's coming later this month on April 23rd. And until then, that's a wrap for this 2024 season opener of You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D. I'm Jeanette Campbell. And I'm Dane Askin.
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Thanks again for listening wherever, whenever, and on whatever podcast app you're listening from. Join us each episode as we have insightful conversations, much like this one, and explore disability inclusion in business and in our communities from all the angles. You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D is produced in Toronto, Canada by the Ontario Disability Employment Network. All rights reserved. Our podcast production team, executive producer and host, Jeanette Campbell.
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Producer Sudefo, Associate Producer and host Dean Askin, audio editing and production by Dean Askin. Our podcast theme is Last Summer by Ixen. If you have feedback or comments about an episode, contact us at info at odinnetwork.com. That's info at O-D- Join us each episode for insights from expert guests as we explore the power of inclusion.
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the business benefits of inclusive hiring, and why disability is an important part of the diversity, equity, and inclusion conversation. Listen to You Can't Spell Inclusion Without a D on Podbean or wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
